Cleveland Big Cat Williams gets a title shot on Sept 26 1962 instead of Sonny Liston.

You dont have to start the thread to spam it. I dont need to check every thread on here related to Williams to know that you will be drooling all over it whenever his name is mentioned. Feel free to reply (I know you cant help yourself) but Im not going to engage further with your delusion. There is literally nothing factual you can say that will refute anything in my post. Separate the facts from the bull**** and its pretty easy to see how pedestrian Williams' career actually was.

 

I would address your post but
1. It's all jumbled up, because your typing, along with your attitude resembles that of a child and you evidently don't know how to use paragraphs.

2. You would ignore my responses, and any questions I ask like you and Chok did when I asked you why Williams was called the Big Cat, when you said he was slow.

3. You're not worth the effort.

 

34 fights is not that much?

How many fights did Joe Frazier or Ingo Johansson ever have?

you never answered my question. Who protested the Terrell v Williams decision?

 

Can’t argue with that. It is certainly the truth isn’t it?

 

Well if you are guaranteeing feel free to provide said fights and their evidence. Louis was known for being in pristine shape excepting this one occasion and never let himself down thereafter i believe.

I'll happily accept evidence to the contrary rather than baseless claims tho.

 

Didn’t Louis claim he was weight weakened for Billy Conn, he wanted to weigh less than 200lb so as to look less like a bully? This was when Joe had weighed 200 or just over 200 for 11 of his last 12 fights.

Looking Back on his career I am sure Louis wrote in his autobiography that he knew he was in best shape when he was close to 199lb.

he was 198 for Schmeling in their first fight. 198 and three quarters for their second fight two years later.

he had weighed as high as 200 as early as 1935 fighting Don Red Barry some two years before meeting Schmeling.

 

You are gonna have to do a whole lot better than that jumble chok.

 

And Billy Daniels beat #1 contender Doug Jones. Didn't do him much good when he faced Cleveland Williams in his very next fight. Alonzo Johnson beat Valdes just 2 months after Powell did - and Valdes wasn't fat for that one like he was against Powell. Again, did Johnson no good at all when he faced Williams three years later.

Powell, meanwhile, followed up his one big win by being made a fool of by Roy Harris and then being flattened inside a round by Mike DeJohn.

But sure. When Patterson beat Powell five years after Powell's brief spell in the sun, it was pretty much the same as beating a prime Cleveland Williams.

These Williams threads don't spill over into pages because anyone's drooling over his muscles. It's because of the endless distortion and dishonesty of the attempts to paint him as nothing more than an easily defeated fringe contender.

 

I don’t think there is anything dishonest in saying when both were contenders, Williams never proved to be ahead of Terrell level. Or that, aside from a measure of class, there really are reasonable comparisons in size and style between Powell and Williams. How is that dishonest? Frank Bruno was a similar style and size to Alex Stewart.

ok, perhaps prime Williams does 20% better than Powell against Patterson. Maybe he lasts into the 8th round? After all that’s still doing better than Henry cooper. As you know Floyd was still pretty deadly even against Henry Cooper a bit later on than the period he may have fought Williams.

 

You're knowledge of this era is insane.

 

I'll admit, all this time arguing the point has probably motivated me to get a bit better informed than I otherwise would have been. I guess everything has a positive side.

 

Maybe thats because Daniels was smack dab in the middle of 3-3-18 losing streak when he barely beat an out of shape Jones on a one round swing decision which resulted in them splitting two fights during this period. And since you Williams nuthuggers love to pretend close decisions are really a win for your guy I guess we can call the disputed decision that Daniels won really a victory for Jones. And yes, Jones was rated #1 but he was moved into the #1 position by default when Ali, who had been #1, won the title. But more to the point, that was Daniels who beat a #1 contender, not Williams. Because thankfully the NBA had enough sense to know that you dont bump an unrated fighter like Daniels who had won just 2 of his last 8 fights into the #1 position for getting a highly disputed decision over an out of shape light heavyweight who was bumped into the top position by default. Its damning Williams with faint praise to trumpet his win over Daniels, who won 7 of his final 33 fights which included this period and directly, between 1962 and 1967 won only 5 of 27. So yes, Williams was occasionally able to defeat fringe contenders but more often than not those fringe contenders had squeeked into the ratings in very fluky ways.

This is a straw man argument that I never made. The fact remains that Powell did something Williams never could.

I didnt distort anything. I stated cold hard facts that you cant dispute. All you can do is draw lame comparisons that dont even hold water.

 

Oh, so you agree that Charlie Powell is irrelevant to the Patterson v Williams question? Glad we got that sorted out.

 

Just as much to do with Patterson-Williams as Chuvalo-Miteff and Teddy Brennan's opinion on Machen's losing performance to Patterson which were the only two comments you offered to the discussion prior to engaging with my post. If you really want to slavishly stay on topic and not veer into tangents (what forum post ever does that...) Then here: Patterson, who was a top contender for two decades, a two time champion (should have been a three time champion), a gold medal Olympian, with far more and far better performances against contenders than Williams ever dreamed, should be a heavy and easy favorite to beat Williams who has zero signature wins to his name and despite his supposedly great power never demonstrated he could actually stop a top rated opponent. I know that hurts but you asked for it.

 

That's nice, but I'm still none the wiser about whether or not you're trying to argue that Charlie Powell was as good as Cleveland Williams.

Someone more cynical than me might think that you tried to make that argument, then realised it was indefensible, and now you're just very keen to move on.