Cleveland Williams-Ernie Terrell II

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Apr 12, 2015.


  1. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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  2. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Looks like Terrel won because of his jab but Earnie was awful, a poor man's version of Pinklon Thomas but Ernie got clocked a few times and had nothing (power) to scare off Big Cat ( who did not have a granite chin) ....I have not watched ET in a while and I think I know why .....neither man looked like a world beater IMO
     
  3. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Watched this fight before. Terrell was butting the hell out of Williams. Close fight either way.
     
  4. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I think they were due to fight for a third time when Williams got shot up by a Texas ranger.
     
  5. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Scored it 46-45 or 5-4-1 Terrell. Good, tough fight.
     
  6. jowcol

    jowcol Boxing Addict Full Member

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    have never seen it, obviously one of those boring fights among boring contenders given their styles. Neither is probably going to knock the other out. Ernie will use his size and jab and holding to survive and Cat won't get thru that despite his size and power.
    I've said this before but wouldn't a Terrell-Bugner bout have been the ultimate 'snoozefest'?
     
  7. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    good one to avoid :good
     
  8. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Just goes to show how long Liston could've reigned if a guy named Cassius Clay hadn't had his bike stolen.

    Terrell certainly wasn't going to knock him off.

    Liston could've conceivably held the title from 1962 until 1968 or 1969 ... when Joe Frazier or maybe even Jerry Quarry knocks him off.
     
  9. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Sonny was getting quite inactive by 1964. I think Doug Jones would have been a handfull for an inactive, slowing down champion. Doug was good on film against Foley and pushed Clay close. It's a pity Ingo's short prime years were wasted tangling with just one guy for three years. He could have presented another style challenge for Liston we never got to see.

    Bonavena and chuvalo would have been intresting too. By then Ellis, Quarry and Frazier might have been too much. On their day those guys might have been too good for a tired champion.
     
  10. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Jones get's jabbed to death by Liston for a few rounds, then knocked out. Jones didn't have the foot or handspeed to trouble liston. good night!

    Ingo had a weak chin, and poor stationary defense. Liston would have brutalized him in 1-3 rounds. Ingo would have tasted Liston's power early, and curled up into a shell.
     
  11. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Tired champion? Just 1 year earlier, Liston destroyed Floyd Patterson in 1 round. An older, slower Patterson went on to beat Bonavena and Chuvalo, and fight 35 very competitive rounds with Quarry and Ellis.


    Give it a break, Liston destroys all those men
     
  12. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I agree, prime Sonny of 1960 wipes the floor with those guys. But around the time he fought Ali Sonny is four years older. He's going to be older beyond that surely?

    Let's be honest here, the Sonny who fought Wepner and Martin was not a prime Liston. If Sonny were still champion at that stage I think Frazier, Quarry and Ellis would be another level to Martin and Wepner.

    If Liston was so old against Ali in their second fight he would be guaranteed (at world level) to be an inferior incarnation of himself by the period that Ellis, Frazier and Quarry were relevant on the world scene.

    Yes Floyd fared well late on in his career. Patterson stayed in good shape and in comparison to Sonny lived well. That could be why Patterson was able to deal rather well against Ellis - a man who beat the man who knocked out Sonny.
     
  13. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I've scored this fight 6-4 to Terrell.

    Williams best round was the third ,almost knocking Ernie down, but Terrell came right back at him. Terrell rocked Williams almost as much in the 9th. Both had eye damage. Ernies jab was the difference in the close rounds. Both were very tired in the last three rounds. Tough and untidy at the end but there was evidence of good clean boxing in the first 6 rounds.
     
  14. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Right. But we're not talking about 1969 and 1970.

    We're talking about 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967 and 1968.

    If Ali had never boxed, I don't know if anyone beats Liston from 1955 (when Marty Marshall did it) until the 1968 or 1969 timeframe ... basically a whole decade and a half.

    By 1968/69, Frazier would've likely beaten him. Maybe even Quarry.

    (I don't know if Jimmy Ellis would've been a player at heavyweight if Ali had never been around. Ali opened doors for Ellis, put him on some undercards, exposed him to the media members who were covering Ali.)
     
  15. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Liston was certainly the best heavyweight in the world in 1960 he established that so emphatically in 1963 when he finally got his hands on the winner of the Floyd and ingo show. So without doubt we all know 1960-64 Sonny was the best out there.

    But I don't see anything in 1955 that Sonny was doing that proves he was anyway near being the best heavyweight in the world at that time. He had not registered a win with a single noted HW contender in 1955.

    He fought once in 1956 and not at all in 1957 so Liston was entirely absent in the world scheme of things during that time. Apart from one fight in 1956 sonny was on an enforced retirement untill 1958 since It was not until 1958 was when he resurfaced from his problems and was fighting professionally again.

    1959 was actually when Sonny began making waves as a serious contender. He might have registered in 1958 but 1959-1964 is proberbly the limit of sonny Listons worth and there is nothing wrong with that.