Cleveland Williams-Ernie Terrell II

Jonny Summerlin and Liston both met during the development stage of their careers. One of their fights was close. They proberbly both had a bit to learn. Certainly neither were on the championship radar in 1954.

though tough, at no stage of his career was Summerlin ever a threat to the title. Johnnys one good win (albeit over a developing prospect who later improved) was 8 fights after facing Liston.

Machen gave Summerlin a long beating and so did Satterfeild. Summerlin drew and lost to guys Embrel Davidson knocked out. To put things into perspective at world level Archie Moore knocked Embrel davidson out in one round.

 

I've seen footage of Terrell and Ali's entire fight with him and agree that he was painfully boring to watch. It's no surprise that despite being the WBA champion he was widely ignored by the public.

 

I probably wasn't clear. I didn't mean he could beat anyone in the world in 1955.

I just meant, without Ali in the picture, he likely doesn't lose from 1955 (when he lost to Marshall) until the late 1960s.

If he fought all the same guys he faced up until Ali in February 1964 ... and if Ali wasn't there ... he could've handled all the contenders until Frazier or Quarry came along in 1968/69 ... when Sonny was slipping badly.

It's just an opinion. Who knows how things would've shaken out in the 60s if Ali wasn't a boxer.

Maybe an out-of-control Liston would've been gunned down during one of his drunken dust-ups with the police. Maybe he has to fight abroad because of the crackdown on the mafia. Maybe someone we never heard of in Europe scores a major upset over him (like Douglas did with Tyson).

But, just surveying the usual suspects that did emerge in the 1960s, I don't see Terrell or Doug Jones, Thad Spencer, Patterson, Chuvalo, etc., beating him during his reign ... and he goes until he just falls apart.

:good

 

That is a fair assessment. I accept this is your opinion. If Sonny stayed active and clean living I would expect his 1960 form to have been maintained for longer than it was. Problem was as champion he hit the one fight a year routine which is difficult to stay keen and sharp. If he could have maintained that earlier form after 1963 I would agree Liston would have been completely dominating for further years. But I don't think he did. I just think (mostly through lack of rounds) Sonny was unable to do this through no fault of his own. Many feel Liston was already in a decline or at least not as good by the time he fought Ali in Miami. If he's fighting once a year beyond 1964 having already slowed down some he could lose to an inferior fighter.

Interestingly after Listons European fights his initial relaunch in America was a more active campaign that built Sonny back up to a decent form by the Henry Clark fight. This could prove that with more activity there was better to come from him as champion than what we got after the Patterson fights.:good

 

He was definitely sharp when he was busy.

I don't think Liston would've been a one-fight-a-year champ under different circumstances. He had a rematch clause with Patterson, so he had to wait until Patterson was ready in 1963 before he could actually defend his title. And Liston would've faced Ali twice in 1964 if Ali hadn't suffered the hernia.