Cleveland Williams is nowhere near even Ingemar Johansson in any OBJECTIVE metric.

I agree. While I have nothing against Cleveland Williams, I don’t place him in the same fraternity as men who held the world title and who’s records far exceeded his own. He was a “ respectable “ contender but that’s as far as it should go. On a side note I give him huge props for surviving multiple gun shot wounds and still finding enough left to return to the ring ( though il advised. ) not many could do that

 

I agree with both posts - Williams was a tough man that could be admired, but he's not anything special as a contender. Of course very good and dangerous at his best, but nothing else.

Ingo has strange career but it's clear that he was extremely good. His power was real, I like how he fought too.

 

You and objective shouldn't be in the same sentence

 

I agree.

But Williams smashes ingo in a fight.

 

Williams ko's Ingo and early.

 

This is amusing, 8 of those losses came after he had been shot and was only a shell of the fighter he was.Seven after he had turned 35.
Objective my left bollock!

 

I'd say when you trumpet Johansson's wins over Henry Cooper (green, unranked and on a losing streak) and Hein Ten Hoff (35 years old, unranked, and never boxed again), you make it pretty clear that "objectivity" wasn't high on the list of priorities.

 

I would also add that Ingo was a two time European amateur champion as well as an Olympic Silver medalist in 52'. He was a much better fighter than he gets credit for. Williams had natural talent no doubt but I would definitely favor Ingo and his amauter pedigree and raw right hand power.

 

I don't know where Williams gets this rep as some head to head monster. His career trajectory was a lot like Earnie Shavers'. He'd run up a string of KOs against second tier opposition, then he'd step up in class and usually lose or draw, then he'd run up another string of KOs against fringe contenders, then step up and lose, and so on. Like Shavers, his rep mainly rests on his opponents who beat him raving about hard he could hit than rather than all his impressive KOs of top fighters. We don't need to rely on hyperbole about Joe Louis, Thomas Hearns, Archie Moore or George Foreman's power. We can see it on film and on their records which show all their knockouts of champs and top contenders.

 

What a weird coincidence! I was thinking to myself the other day how underrated Ingo was. I ran through the lineal champions to see which ones I thought he'd beat and here was my results.

Blows Corbett and Fitz out.

50/50 with Jeffries (thread worthy IMO).

Pieces Hart and Willard, beats Johnson.

Loses to Dempsey, looks like the Patterson rematches.

Loses to Gene.

Beats Baer, Sharkey, Schmeling, Braddock and Primo. The question is, IMO, if he can stop them all. I think he can.

Louis stops him in a great fight.

50/50 with Walcott (would be an awesome fight, full of feints, and a 'whoever-lands-first' nail-biter. I think it'd be Ingo's speed vs Walcott's craftiness, so go with what you like).

Loses to Charles like he does Tunney.

Marciano has to walk through hellfire to get to him, but he could and would. Marci by KO.

Splits a trilogy with Patterson.

Loses big to Liston.

Loses even bigger to Ali. Has no chance here IMO.

Another stoppage loss, but another great fight here. Frazier has to walk through hell, like Rocky, but gets it down.

Foreman crushes him.

This Ali may well lose, but I doubt it.

Neon Leon doesn't have the chin here, I'd love him to win but can't see him getting Ingo before sends his head into the stands.

Prime Holmes kicks his ass. M.Spinks beats him like Charles and Tunney do. And then Tyson demolishes him.

Buster, Holyfield and Bowe all beat him but he's somewhat competitive. Especially with Douglas.

Moorer gets KOd. So does Briggs. Old Foreman is interesting coz I think he'd need to out-box him, and he probably could, but he may get Gung-ho and look for a stoppage. Could be interesting to see if he got one.

Lewis destroys him. Wlad beats him by stoppage, too. He has no chance vs Fury.

Let's see Cleveland Williams come close to that.

 

I agree Ingo gets a bit underrated. He was a one-trick pony for sure but a thunderous right hand is a great one trick to have. He'd likely lose to a lot of the greats, though his KO power might spring a few upsets. Can't think of many fighters who have KO'd the #1 contender and the world heavyweight champion in consecutive fights.

 

I was thinking the same yesterday until I saw...

Well, I actually can see him beating Sharkey and unmotivated Baer, but I'd favor Fitz and Schmeling over him.

 

I haven't seen enough of either to make a decent post. I did however have them much closer in level than the OP has shown them to be. Good thread.

 

There is nothing to collaborate this to be honest. Most likely Ingo wins he was the better fighter.