Cleveland Williams is nowhere near even Ingemar Johansson in any OBJECTIVE metric.

I think that was Henry Cooper's manager.

 

Could have been. It sums up how people avoided Liston. Williams dared to fight Liston...twice.

 

Well, I agree the OP mentioned too many mediocre fighters for Johansson.

In my opinion, there's really not much to talk about on either fighters' resume. But Johansson's wins against Patterson and Machen put him clearly ahead of Williams.
If people want to argue about Hein Ten Hoff and Alex Miteff, I'm glad I sat this one out.

 

And your point is? I'm responsible for only my posts... have you read them?

 

Johansson never did commended by anybody though, did he? except for Patterson, right? who complimented everybody no matter how mediocre

 

How about who knocked them down/ out? Johansson was floored four times and knocked out twice by Patterson, a good puncher, but not one of the hardest. Brian London floored him when he was a shade over the hill. London was not a big puncher. Who floored/ knocked out Williams in his prime? The Bear decked him four times in two bouts. He's one of the hardest punchers of all time.

 

You haven't "sat this one out" you keep chiming in with a repetitive and almost robotic "Johannson is so much better than Williams why is this even a thread lolz"

 

London not only floored Ingo but had him nearly out and would've gained a stoppage had it been even seconds earlier.

• "I would have stopped the fight if the bell had not saved Johansson. He could not have continued." -Referee Andrew Smythe

 

Yes as a matter of fact, I have. I've noticed you're also a detractor of Williams (not in the same vein as Choklab and the OP however) and thought it was rather hyporcritcal of you to point out that Valdez may have been over the hill in my statistical comparison but omit all the unfair and nonbalanced bashing of Williams that is common in this thread.

 

Machen was angling for a title shot against Liston? That's a little odd seeing as Patterson, not Liston was the champion...

 

I posted on page 6 and page 7 (3 posts in total) ....... and didn't engage with it again until page 20 and was genuinely surprised to see it come this far on the same subject.
I haven't read the rest of the thread, except the OP and a few posts on page 1 and 2 (most were in agreement with the OP, from what i could see).

I assume you've been arguing the toss over C-list opponents for the rest of the thread, which I can't be bothered to even think about.
That's all I meant.

 

Fair enough.

 

Hypocritical? Detractor? I don't rate Cleveland Williams as highly as some, or indeed as lowly as others. I rate him as i remember him, a decent contender with real power. I don't think his resume suggests that he would beat Ingo or Floyd but there is enough there to suggest he could. To me he is also in the same bracket as Folley, Machen and Terrell but probably at the bottom of that group but ahead of Cooper, DeJohn, Doug Jones etc. To detract is to take away, I don't take anything away from him I think, but neither do I add much to him, he was what he was (to me). Hypocritical? I pointed out that the analysis of Valdez oppontents versus Williams needed to come with the cavat that for the greater part Williams was getting the same fighters at a lower point in their careers. It's not my job to make the two sides of the debate, I am not a referee or a judge, just a contributer.

 

You know, you actually have a pretty moderate view on this subject. Don't you think btwn Cleve and Terrell though that Cleve was the better man. I mean he beat Terrell more decisively than Terrell beat him.

 

And Liston was a challenger not the champ.