Cleveland Williams is nowhere near even Ingemar Johansson in any OBJECTIVE metric.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by catchwtboxing, Jun 19, 2020.


  1. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

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    Cleveland Williams stopped Ernie Terrell in round 7, in 1962.
     
  2. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Cooper was not faster than Williams, nor nearly as powerful. You should try actually watching film of these fighters.
     
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  3. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Then again, you also think Powell looks as good as Williams so maybe watching film would be pointless to you.
     
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  4. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Source?
     
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  5. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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  6. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    That's how ****ing stupid you are. You don't even know who is who after a decade and can't even tell the difference between a Jason and a John.
     
  7. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Wether Williams was powerful or not it did not come across in the film of the Daniels fight or the film of the Terrell fights. Both were in his prime.

    Henry Cooper in his prime flattened Richardson, Erskine and Decked Muhammad Ali very hard. He had enough whip and snap on his punches to produce filmed knockdowns better than the filmed knock downs Williams has on his resume..and against a better class opponent.
     
  8. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    So would anyone who would bother to watch Powell. Charlie was an animal when he-was on top. If Williams was matched as hard as Powell was they might have similar records. A decent scout would see the potential of both Williams and Powell as similar. With the right match making Powell would have been as good.
     
  9. SolomonDeedes

    SolomonDeedes Active Member Full Member

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    I remember this thread. The section of the fight available on Youtube actually only shows the first four rounds plus a fragment of the fifth. When you say "most posters" had Daniels in the lead what you mean is you've found two people saying they thought he was slightly ahead. You've thrown in a few unrelated quotes generally critical of Williams to make it look like there was a real consensus, presumably hoping no one would actually read them.
     
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  10. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    You can go back and read the thread. They were the ones that scored the rounds available. How did you score the first 5 rounds by the way?
     
  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    You right, I should know a difference between a Jason and the best four letter word to describe you. I was busy multitasking and had the wrong J. Thomas.

    What brought you out of the woodwork today? Here's your chance to highjack a thread and rip Larry Holmes and talk about how great Greg Page. We can talk about how Page blew the David Bey fight in another thread, deal :)
     
  12. Berlenbach

    Berlenbach Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'd also be interested to know this.
     
  13. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    "Charlie was an animal when he was on top."

    ??????

    Powell was a big and physically imposing guy. Otherwise, it is hard to see what you are talking about. The film you brought over shows Norkus taking Powell's best punches with only a flash knockdown and then KO'ing Powell.

    "A decent scout"

    Would notice that Powell has a glass jaw, is wide open for a left hook, and seems unable to avoid punches when in trouble. Norkus could duck and bob. Powell is stiff as a board. He apparently was a fast runner and good jumper, but it didn't translate to quickness or fluidity in the ring. Powell might have been a bit green against Norkus, but his survival skills hadn't improved off his effort in his 47 second blow out against DeJohn.

    Comparing Powell to Williams:

    Powell 25 wins, 11 defeats, 3 draws, 17 KO's, 8 KO'd by
    Williams 80 wins, 13 defeats, 1 draw, 60 KO's, 8 KO'd by

    winning percentage--Powell 64%, Williams 85%
    KO percentage--Powell 44%, Williams 64%
    KO'd by percentage--Powell 21%, Williams 8.5%

    It should be noted that Powell had his last fight when still short of his 33rd birthday. To that point Williams was 65-5-1. Even to 35 Williams was 70-6-1, years older than Powell fought to. The one solid up side for Powell is the KO of Valdes, at the time the #2 contender. This fight stands out as an aberration. Otherwise Powell didn't accomplish much, beating some "names" who were way over the hill and losing to all sorts of average fighters. Roger Rischer, blown out by Williams, beat Powell twice. The very mediocre John Riggins, coming off 5 straight losses, and 7 losses in his last 8 fights, and with a career total of 13 KO's in 41 fights, stopped Powell. Powell was beaten by decision by Dave Furch (9-13-3).

    Nothing that embarrassing ever happened to Williams. His "spectacular" defeats were to Liston and Ali, the best fighters in the world at the time, and to the ever dangerous and explosive Satterfield. Terrell edged him, but it was a competitive fight, and Williams had stopped Terrell. Jones back in 1953 was a four round fight which is really not a good test, and Williams KO'd Jones in a return.

    Williams strongest supporters fill in the vacuums in Williams resume by extrapolating from a lack of evidence into greatness. His biggest critics go to the opposite extreme, as you do, by extrapolating from a lack of evidence into total mediocrity. The truth is he was a lot more solid contender than someone like Charlie Powell.
     
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  14. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Excellent, fair, and balanced post.
     
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  15. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I didn’t see much difference to the way Williams got caught unloading if I am honest. Williams got caught unloading too. Powell got caught loading up. This is a similarity. It can happen to anyone.

    again, Williams looked very stiff in his prime too. Watch the Terrell fight.

    of course his record is a lot more solid than Charlie Powell’s, but look at the long nurturing opponent selection that went on in Williams career before he could dip his toes into deeper waters.

    He lost to Sylvester Jones, was able to go back the drawing board, regroup and beat Jones in the rematch. Charlie Powell had his unbeaten run exposed by a better fighter than Sly Jones. He got beat by Norkus.

    But Powell didn’t get no regrouping like Williams had. He was thrown in with Johnny Summerlin (a tough guy) and got beat again...yet still Powell recovered to act revenge over Norkus. That’s pretty good going. Then he beat Valdes. The #2 contender. That was pretty good. At that moment better than anything Williams did.

    After acting his revenge over sly Jones, Williams was matched with Satterfeild. Which was the kind of loss perhaps that Powell had with Norkus. So it is not too far off, only Williams wasn’t regrouping to beat a Nino Valdes level guy after that was he?

    Sure the Valdes win was as good as it got for Powell. His next two opponents were top fighters Harris and Dejohn. When did Williams fight three top fighters in a row? And how did he get on when he did?
     
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