Cleveland Williams is nowhere near even Ingemar Johansson in any OBJECTIVE metric.

I agree. JT is a very good poster who I respect.

 

"I disagree with the report and so did most of the posters on here who scored the first 5 rounds."
Unfortunately, the posts you quoted consisted of all of TWO posters saying they had Daniels slightly ahead. The rest of the quotes are irrelevant subjective opinions about Williams. The relevance of this one in particular escapes me.

 

Well, Norton did win the third fight. Ali barely won the second one.

 

After coming off of two back to back 1st-round blowouts against Sonny Liston, I don't think so.

 

Jeff Merritt was the only other. That was Terrell's last fight in 1973.

 

Just on facts. how many ever rated opponents did Williams and Charlie Powell fight. Especially Williams, as this thread is about him. I have gophered through the NBA ratings now posted over at Boxrec and here is Williams with the highest rating the guy ever had in the NBA & in a couple of cases The Ring annual rankings. I supplemented with The Ring because until the mid-fifties the NBA often rated only a few fighters in a division rather than the top ten. All are heavyweight ratings unless marked light-heavy or LH. These are the ever rated fighters Williams fought:

Williams wins
Bob Garner (#6 LH, 1944, The Ring)
Omelio Agramonte (#8)
John Holman (#5)
Frankie Daniels (#8 LH) (defeated twice)
D. Richardson (9)
Wayne Bethea (8)
Alex Miteff (5)
Ernie Terrell (1)
Alonzo Johnson (7)
Billy Daniels (4) (defeated twice)
Young Jack Johnson (#9, 1955, The Ring)
Kirk Barrow (#10 LH)
Roger Rischer (6)

Williams draw
Eddie Machen (1)

Williams losses
Bob Satterfield, Sonny Liston (2), Ernie Terrell, Muhammad Ali, Bob Cleroux, Al Jones, Mac Foster (2), Blue Lewis, George Chuvalo

So Williams fought 22 ever rated fighters 27 fights and went 15-11-1 with 8 KO's and 8 KO'd by. His record going into the Ali fight at 33 years of age would have been 15-4-1 with 8 KO's and 3 KO defeats. Miteff, Daniels, and Rischer appear to have been rated when he fought them. Richardson, Bethea, Terrell, Daniels, and Rischer would be rated after he fought them. Williams KO'd Garner, Holman, Miteff, Terrell, Alonzo Johnson, Young Jack Johnson, Barrow, and Rischer. From 1961 to 1963 he fought fighters who had been rated at one time or another in 10 of 12 fights and went 8-1-1 with 6 KO's. Not quite as bad as some imply, although not outstanding either.

as for Powell, he didn't face generally tougher opposition

Powell's wins
Rocky Jones (LH), Charley Norkus, Nino Valdes, Harold Carter, Bill McMurray

Powell's losses
Charley Norkus, John Summerlin, Roger Rischer (2), Roy Harris, Mike DeJohn, Muhammad Ali, Floyd Patterson

Powell KO'd Jones, Valdes, Carter, and McMurray. He fought 12 ever rated fighters in 13 fights, going 5-8 with 4 KO's and 6 KO defeats. Only Valdes was apparently rated when he fought him. McMurray would later be rated briefly at #10 after stopping Thad Spencer in 1966.

Hope this gives some perspective on Powell versus Williams.

 

Yeah this clears things up. Williams had 27 fights against name fighters from a total of 94 fights spread over 21 years . And he went 15-11-1 against that lot.

Powell fought 12 name fighters from a total of 39 fights over 12 years. and he went 5-8 with that lot.

So Williams won more than he lost against the better men and Powell lost more than he won against the better men making Williams the better fighter, but not by as much as you would think. Williams fought a lot longer and had twice as many fights. Powell fought a larger percentage of his career against better fighters than Williams did and perhaps lost more than he won against the best men he fought as a subsequence of that.

 

He punched out May-may?