Cleveland Williams one the best heavyweights never to be champion

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by drronnie, Oct 9, 2019.


  1. drronnie

    drronnie New Member Full Member

    14
    11
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Oct 8, 2019
    I think when he fought Ali he was just a shell of himself due to the gunshot. Wonder how the "Big Cat" in prime form would have fared in the 90s era. Would he have been a handfull for Bowe, Holyfiled and Lewis? Would he have had real chances of winning either the WBA, IBF or WBC belt or be undisputed champion?
     
  2. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,519
    5,940
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Dec 20, 2006
    Meh...I find him overrated on this forum comparable to a Tua or Lyle
     
  3. drronnie

    drronnie New Member Full Member

    14
    11
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Oct 8, 2019
    So basically a high contender but never really a championship aspirant?
     
  4. Grapefruit

    Grapefruit Active Member Full Member

    1,151
    768
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Dec 19, 2017
    I think he could have been champion in his own era had he fought Patterson, he had size, moved well, strength, power and a great left hook, I loved the way he was able to triple up on it too, he wouldn't beat most champs I think, his defence, reflexes and chin just couldn't take him to that level but he was a vicious puncher and that will take you pretty far, good gatekeeper. Foreman said him lyle and cooney were the hardest punchers he ever fought.
     
  5. Tramell

    Tramell Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,245
    1,740
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Sep 21, 2012
    This!
     
    Grapefruit likes this.
  6. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,145
    1,771
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Mar 22, 2015
    Not remotely.
     
  7. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Member Full Member

    254
    207
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jul 16, 2019
    Cleveland Williams broke Sonny Liston's nose in their 1959 battle before being stopped by the Bear. True he did not have much of a defense,but he sure packed a punch, left hook. Too bad that he was shot by a Texas State Trooper in 1964, after the WBA had stripped Ali of their belt for giving Liston a rematch. Cleve was to fight Ernie Terrell for the title. Williams had stopped Big Ernie on April 3 1962, in round 7. Instead Terrell fought Eddie Machen, on March 5 1965, beating Eddie, by unanimous 15 round decision. I think that Williams could have beat quite a few modern day contenders, he was very disciplined, not a boastful athlete, and trained very hard. He was a tall strong fighter. Too bad we did not see him get better, because of the wound that he sustained. There could have been some big fights on the horizon for him, maybe Joe Frazier, or Oscar Bonavena, just to name a few.
     
    Glass City Cobra likes this.
  8. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,491
    2,169
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Mar 26, 2011
    He would have beaten Patterson imo.
     
    Grapefruit likes this.
  9. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    23,043
    2,629
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Dec 31, 2009
    There really isn’t any evidence Williams could have been champ.

    He hit hard yes, but there were a lot of flaws. He fought D!ck Richardson in the UK but became so intimidated from the headbuts he received winning by controversial disqualification that he refused a signed for rematch sighting hearing voices in his head then refusing to fight without his lucky shorts. He got a UK ban for that.

    His career started against a long list of nobodies rounded up at the truck stop and cabstands in Florida. Guys called baby booze candy ass McDaniels and graveyard Walters. Finally a guy called sylvester Jones flattened him twice on the Marciano Lastarza card where he lost to a guy with less than 10 fights. A few more wins and twenty pound lighter Bob satterfield (his first live body) brained him within a few rounds sending Williams into a short retirement.

    Another run against guys similar to before gave Williams another misleading KO streak before Liston flattened him after an albeit exciting fight.

    This loss kind of cut Williams teeth as a fighter. It kind of made him. He began to get better opponents. After another humbling loss to Sonny and Williams did finally string acceptable wins together. Outpointing Billy The Barber Daniels. Stopping a shop worn Alex Miteff And A young pre rank Ernie Terrell. Even better was a draw against Eddie machen but this draw was as good as it got. It was not a win. Ingo had iced machen in one round.

    Nothing at all there to say he does any good against Floyd Patterson or Ingo Johansson. We actually saw how hard he was beaten by Ali and Liston, I don’t think Williams would fare any better against the other two champions either. There is no statistical evidence.

    In truth Williams should be regarded no higher than men like Brian London who lasted a similar distance against Muhammad Ali and actually had better wins on his record than Williams had
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
  10. crixus85

    crixus85 Active Member Full Member

    674
    246
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Oct 18, 2014
    This post says it all, end of debate!
     
    choklab likes this.
  11. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Youngest Ezzard Charles Fan Ever Full Member

    6,744
    6,533
    Sportsbook:
    1,022
    Mar 3, 2019
    Eh he's alright. He ain't close to best to not win the HW title.
    Guys like Langford, Wills and Moore take that.
     
    choklab likes this.
  12. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,491
    2,169
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Mar 26, 2011
    There is not a single shred of evidence that Williams was in any way intimidated by Richardson.My Father was at that fight and he told me Richardson **** himself after tasting Williams power and fouled out intentionally to save himself from a horrendous beating.
    Your statement is about as bad as it can get when it comes to projecting your fantastical thoughts on to fighters.
    It's actually shamelful!

    Comparing a washed up Williams effort against Ali with London's is a new low even for you! Williams at least tried, London quit!
    And that's from his own mouth!
     
  13. ironchamp

    ironchamp Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,030
    434
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Sep 5, 2004
    Tua is more overrated. Considering that Rahman, Ruiz, Brewster, Maskaev were champions while he was active suggests that he wasn't good enough.

    But Williams was good but not the greatest heavyweight never to win a title.

    I'd say Langford and Wills would have a far better claim honestly speaking.
     
  14. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,519
    5,940
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Dec 20, 2006
    I put all 3 in a similar category but all get a bit of hype on here from season to season. All of them have decent power (which so many seem to love...I could add Shavers to this overrated Mount Rushmore), and beat contenders but all seemed to fail in their attempts against the elite..yet they all frequently get picked to beat the best....a feat they could not pull off in the real world.

    I agree there are many more notable than the above mentioned guys and others such as George Godfrey and Peter Jackson as well.
     
    Bokaj likes this.
  15. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    23,043
    2,629
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Dec 31, 2009
    Williams backed out of the rematch with Richardson. It is well documented that he behaved irrationally. It was a PR disaster for him. Everyone thought Williams was insane.

    By comparison Henry cooper blasted Richardson out with one punch.

    In truth Williams never eclipsed the rated English fighters of the period. Brian London and Cooper are on paper with Williams level.

    Its only hyperbole that keeps Williams legend going. Very little substance.
     
    MrFoFody likes this.


Sign up for ESPN+ and Stream Live Sports! Advertisement