Cleveland Williams vs Leon Spinks

One tends not to bring energy to a fight they intend to lose.

 

Out of interest, I'm assuming you also accept BM's conclusion that Rocky Marciano belongs at #41 in the all-time heavyweight ratings.

 

In relation to that criteria, and all of the longer careers fought among “man who beat the man” It is entirely acceptable for Marciano to come out where he came out on the all time list. Since Rocky’s top flight career was more limited and condensed in relation to so many other fighters. It’s also acceptable and accurate that Rocky came out on top for the 1950s decade in Boilermakers system.

may you answer a question from me, under the same system, do you accept Williams position for his decade?

 

Huh! Maybe I dismissed that list to quickly.

 

@choklab?

 

LOL. Remind me, did we fall on the same side of that vicious Marciano-Mercer thread not long ago?

 

lol I didn't participate in that thread. Just watched from the sidelines as I always enjoy Seamus's comments in a Marciano thread.

I'd favor Marciano to get a decision though. Mercer gets a tad overrated here imo. His draw with Wilson really stands out to me.

 

Happy to give a straight answer to that. Of course I don't. The lineal rankings thread was an interesting read and well worth doing, but like any purely stats based system it's not a reliable guide to - as you put it - "the real scheme of things". Williams was clearly one of the best heavyweights of the late 50s and early 60s, just as Marciano's achievements clearly place him higher than #41.

 

Good answer.

While Williams was a decent contender for a time, I can’t see there being a champ he might have beat in real life.

 

The best comment on this post...he can't decide what to say anymore.

 

Tommy Burns and Corbett are obvious choices for guys he'd beat h2h

 

Nothing obvious about it. Those guys were regarded as the best in the world at one time and Williams never was. Burns even took the title abroad taking on national champions. Corbett was also celebrated for standing out among pugilists of his time beating the invincible Sullivan and giving Jeffries all he could handle.

 

I don’t disagree with your assessment of Williams in your penultimate sentence, but he certainly could have beaten some of the linear champs. If you throw it open to non-linear straps (I strictly don’t), it would become a pretty long list. But among the lineals, he could certainly beat Willard, Carnera, probably Burns & Hart, & have legitimate chances with others. I mean, Rahman was champ. Williams couldn’t beat him!?

 

@SolomonDeedes, since @choklab is to much of a coward to address me would you be able to answer this?

Also were any of these guys ring rated in their careers? I know Alfredo was ranked ten by the WBC at one point, I think ‘77 off the top of my head.

 

Are you forgetting in a thread regarding who was better, between Williams and Briggs you stated the following: