Cleveland Williams vs Ron Lyle

Best version of each man. 15 rounds.

 

I mean, I think Lyle steamrolls him. Outside of a compliment from Sonny Liston and going 1-1 with Ernest Terrel, it is really hard to find the mythical Cleveland Williams.

You want to know what Lyle could do, just look at his fight with Shavers.

 

Here's the pre-fight fantasy weigh in for this fantasy fight that I prepared earlier. Cleve has better pecs than Ronny - as to whether that impacts on the outcome, I have no idea.


[url]https://www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/news-photo/all-right-jack-lets-see-how-you-check-out-now-dr-isamu-news-photo/838106668?adppopup=true[/url]

 

I don't view Cleve as mythical as yourself, but Ronnie could turn full beast mode, and impressively so - usually under equal and opposite duress, too bad he didn't do it more often. The Lyle vs Shavers fight is a slugfest for the ages...better than Foreman vs Lyle, just imo.

 

Who did Williams ever beat that was as good as Lyle? Lyle by KO.

Swag will be along directly to drool over and pontificate about Williams.

 

Funny you're calling Lyle mythical in a Williams thread. Lyle has less rated wins, didn't make it higher in the ratings, and did laughably worse against his boxers than Williams did.

 

Who did Lyle beat as good as Williams? No a washed Ellis and Bonavena don't count.

On the other hand I'd favor Terrell and especially Machen to run circles around Lyle.

 

Neither guy was any good. I don’t know how anyone watches there fights more then once. Lyle probably, he’s just a bit better at everything Cleveland tried to do.

 

I don’t care where this thread is going but Oscar would bulldoze through Williams.

 

Two guys and the bombs are going to fly. I go with Lyle by ko, he just seemed more proven and durable.

 

Yeah, Ill take any version of Ellis and Bonavena over Williams' best wins. If all Lyle had to do to get a #2 rating was beat Billy Daniels Im pretty confident he would have done it. Instead when Lyle was fighting the division was a hell of a lot deeper and the two guys rated ahead of Lyle in the ratings when he got to #3 were Ali and Frazier, two guys Williams never had a chance in hell against, while the champion was Foreman. Lyle beat Shavers, Ellis, Bonavena, Bugner, Peralta, Middleton, Mathis, He went life and death with Foreman and was ahead on points against Ali. His record shits all over Williams'.

 

Youll talk about Bonavena and Ellis being past it but youll take a green Terrell over Lyle. I wouldnt. In fact I wouldnt take any version of Terrell over Lyle. But the fact that you have to bring up a guy who actually beat Williams, and another guy who got a draw with Williams in his hometown as Williams two best opponents says a lot more about how weak Williams' resume is than anything I could...

 

I would too,

 

That's a great photo. Look at the expression on the faces of some of the fighters. It's giving me prison gang vibes, with the little old chap with the stethoscope being in a whole world of trouble.

 

"I'll take any version of Ellis and Bonavena over Williams best wins."
Ellis at that point was drawing with the likes of Larry Middleton, who lost to several of Williams victims, and was earlier blown out by Shavers in a single round when Lyle had to go the distance.

Lyle's win over Ellis isn't the feather in his cap you think it is.

Bonavena had noticeably slowed down and didn't have a single notable victory in 6 years by that point in time. He'd lost to a washed Patterson at the very end of his career 3 years prior.

He was also saved by a DQ win against Alvin ****Ing Lewis who'd decked him several times in '71 something Lyle failed to do.

"Instead when Lyle was fighting the division was a hell of a lot deeper and the two guys rated ahead of Lyle in the ratings when he got to #3 were Ali and Frazier" This comes with the asterisk that Lyle's rating was clearly unwarranted as he'd lost to the obscure and unrated Young, and not only was his rating unaffected, he was rewarded with a title shot against Ali.

"two guys Williams never had a chance in hell against, while the champion was Foreman."
I agree Williams doesn't have a chance in hell against Ali, Frazier or Foreman. Care to discuss Lyle's chances against the men ahead of Williams in the ratings when he was number 2 or does that not suit your agenda?

Furthermore, judging by his bouts with Young, when he showed he was laughably clueless on how to deal with a boxer, I'd also say Lyle "never had a chance in hell against" Machen, who Williams faired rather well with.

"He went life and death with Foreman"
A rusty, less confident, less aggressive Foreman, who switched his style dramatically for the worse.
"and was ahead on points against Ali."
Oh yeah I still remember your laughable claim that Lyle outboxed Ali up uintil the stoppage, when the truth is Ali was doing virtually nothing the entire night, and Lyle was only winning rounds on the basis that he was the more active fighter. He never had Ali remotely in danger, or trouble.