Cleveland Williams vs Ron Lyle

He’s not suicidal…. I hope you aren’t either JT. I was just starting to like you.

 

There's no chance i am getting between you and the Big Cat mate!!!!!!!

 

Agreed.

If Cleveland Williams beat any versions of Ellis, Bonavena, Shavers and Bugner, along with his win over Terrell, this Classic Forum would have Ali #1 all time, followed by Liston at #2, Cleveland at #3 and Joe Louis would barely crack the top five.



If Herbie Hide had boxed in the late 50s/early 60s, he'd have been Cleveland Williams. Except Hide probably hit harder.

 

Because Hide was a brutal puncher. An actual KO puncher. Other than Bigfoot Martin, I don't believe anyone even went the distance with him until Hide was 37 or 38 years old.

He hit Michael Bentt so hard he gave him brain damage and he had to retire.

From the start of Williams' career, to his peak, until the end, any number of mediocre guys went the distance with him.

 

As I stated, Ellis, and Bonavena, were at the end of their careers.

A fresher #3 Ellis was blown out in a single round by Shavers while Lyle needed to go the distance with an unrated Ellis

Bugner was one of 2 ranked opponents he actually managed to beat..... except Shavers blew Bugner out in a round and Lyle needed a split decision to do it.

Your Herbie Hide comparison is laughably nonsensical, just like the rest of your atrocious posts such as picking Cooney to beat Liston and making up a bunch of blatant lies to justify it.

 

Name one guy he knocked out, other than Bentt, and a shot 40 year old Tucker we would know.

Untrue Bentt almost certainly went into that fight injured.

Also Williams gave Curly Lee (who unlike Bentt was an actual, you know semi-contender and seen as the next big ting in boxing) significant brain damage, headaches that wouldn't go away, bleeding every time he blew his nose, an inability to shake hands, and caused him to suffer black outs frequently. This brain damage culminated in Curley Lee murdering his entire family.

He also ruptured a vessel in Young Jack Johnson's (also a contender though not rated at that point) forehead and is crediting with hitting a man so hard he broke his back, putting him on crutches for the rest of his life.

 

It was pretty spot on.

 

“Semi contender” “contender though not yet rated” LOL the mental gymnastics you have to go through to puff up a mediocre fighter with a padded record are hilarious.

 

Curly Lee?

Jesus.

How was Bentt not a contender? He was the freaking WBO Heavyweight Champion? He knocked out Tommy Morrison in one round the fight before. He was the number one US amateur in the world for years.

And who all flattened Tony Tucker before Herbie Hide wiped him out? Tell me all the times Tony Tucker went down before that and who put him there.

Give me a break.

Again, if Cleveland Williams beat ANY versions of Jimmy Ellis, Oscar Bonavena, Joe Bugner, along with Terrell, you guys would never shut up about it.

 

That's great. Now have Swag recommend some Cleveland Williams knockouts you can watch, other than Tod Herring.

But feel free to watch that, too, so you can see how "awesome" Tod Herring looked in the flesh, since we're picking apart opponents and all.

 

That might hold more weight if the guy (Shavers) you keep comparing Lyle's performances to wasn't someone who Lyle also knocked out.

"See, Shavers beat them easier" doesn't hold much water when Lyle beat Shavers emphatically.

 

People can't even blame Williams and his gunshot wound for his bad performances, when comparing him to Lyle, because Lyle was stabbed (to death) in prison ... he was dead, before being revived.

And that was before Lyle even had one pro fight.

So basically EVERY performance Lyle had as a pro was after he'd already suffered a WORSE injury than Cleveland Williams endured.

Williams wasn't dead from his gunshot wound. He was already a veteran contender when it happened. Lyle was actually dead from his stab wounds, before being brought back to life, and then he BEGAN his career.

 

Smart man.