[CLIP] 1955 Marciano on his best fighting weight (186-187 pounds)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mrkoolkevin, Jan 16, 2018.


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  1. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
    reznick, Jan 16, 2018
    reznick, Jan 16, 2018
    #16
  2. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    What did Tua's trainers say about his best fighting weight ?
    If they said anything, I bet they were inconsistent.
    His weight was all over the place.
    And I'm pretty sure he got it wrong in several big fights.

    I agree with the point about Marciano, but Tua's career leaves speculation on the agenda, since his weight varied so considerably.
     
    Unforgiven, Jan 16, 2018
    Unforgiven, Jan 16, 2018
    #17
  3. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    I would say his results point toward the 225 range. That's it. I'm done.
     
    Seamus, Jan 16, 2018
    Seamus, Jan 16, 2018
    #18
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  4. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    His trainers didn't seem to figure it out.
     
    Unforgiven, Jan 16, 2018
    Unforgiven, Jan 16, 2018
    #19
  5. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Ok, but I still don't follow the reasoning behind your premise that weighing 220 pounds might help Marciano against the Lennox Lewises and Riddick Bowes (or even the Tucker/Douglas/Williamses) of the world. Is it just a matter of him being harder to push around or do you think there might be other benefits? Putting aside the likely drawbacks, I'm sincerely curious about your views on the benefits of added mass. Do you think a 220-lb version of Marciano would have better punching power? Better ability to take punches?

    I'm not sure it's reasonable to assume that Marciano could follow in Holyfield's footsteps. Holyfield had to work very hard over several years through a rigorous fitness and nutrition regimen to become a fit 205-215lb fighter without compromising any of his athletic abilities. He had the stature, limbs, and natural athleticism to pull it off though--it seems like it would have been far less feasible if he had been short, stubby, and already relatively slow at his lighter weight, like Marciano.

    Tua had dimensions that were more similar to Marciano's but it also seems pretty clear to me that he was a naturally bigger man and therefore likely had a significantly higher optimal fighting weight. As I said before, I think you're probably making way too much of the vague quotes about Charlie Goldman's diet policy. For all we know, the whole bit about Marciano's sneaking cookies and bananas in his pockets didn't become an issue until later in his career. Marciano weighed in the low-to-mid 180s as a 24-25 year old man, before he ever met Charlie Goldman. A year or so later, he had a string of fights where he weighed: 179.75, 180.25, 185.5, 181, 183, 180.25, and 183.25. On the other hand, Tua weighed over 200 pounds by the time he was out of his teens, and virtually never weighed less than 220 pounds by the time he was 22.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
    mrkoolkevin, Jan 16, 2018
    mrkoolkevin, Jan 16, 2018
    #20
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  6. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    The type of opponents probably influence what your best weight is to be. Who here thinks Tua and Holyfield would’ve gained all that weight had they already been one of the biggest men in boxing? And not because they had to fight Lennox Lewis, and two handfuls of skilled strong SHWs?

    The only motive I have is clear. And that is to try and debunk theories made by overzealous agenda pushers to diminish great fighters standings for inaccurate or malicious reasons. Such as those bred by people that cast certain fighters as honkeys. How’s that deeply rooted psychological ****?

    James Toney gained ONE HUNDRED POUNDS. And did just A OK. Paint 220lb Rocky as a cripple all you want, but the data is becoming clearer, and the level of sophistication by aficionados is elevating. Your little 2001 Boxrec epiphinaies doing back to back comparisons on weights aren’t as simplistic as you once thought.

    I conclude this post by saying that Rocky had to hide fruit under his bed from his trainer.
     
    reznick, Jan 16, 2018
    reznick, Jan 16, 2018
    #21
  7. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Yeah, I think he would’ve been harder to push around, slower (he was WAY faster than SHWs at 185), maybe slightly heavier handed (which would lend more to maneuvering than to punching power), overall more durable.

    James Toney gained 100lb as a MW, and went toe to toe with one of Wlads toughest foes. The body type argument is too fickle I think for reality. Unforgiven seems to have the right idea looking at the body being more plastic, generally speaking. Holyfield’s body type (having longer limbs etc) versus Rocky’s isn’t going to be the determining factor in all this. It’s clearly the will to do it, versus the will to do the opposite of it.

    Maybe Rocky is slightly smaller than Tua. But Tua became a 250lb fighter. We’re talking about Rocky being 220lb. And Marciano was one of the hardest workers in the gym, and overall as a trainee in the sport. So you can imagine that if functional weight gain was the goal, he’d achieve it as rigerously and as properly as anyone else.
     
    reznick, Jan 16, 2018
    reznick, Jan 16, 2018
    #22
  8. Combatesdeboxeo_

    Combatesdeboxeo_ Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Lmao this forum is a total circus
     
    Combatesdeboxeo_, Jan 16, 2018
    Combatesdeboxeo_, Jan 16, 2018
    #23
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  9. Combatesdeboxeo_

    Combatesdeboxeo_ Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Amen
     
    Combatesdeboxeo_, Jan 16, 2018
    Combatesdeboxeo_, Jan 16, 2018
    #24
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  10. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    They likely did but his eating habits didn't.....
     
    Wass1985, Jan 16, 2018
    Wass1985, Jan 16, 2018
    #25
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  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    That Charley Goldman was a greedy little ****er!
     
    mcvey, Jan 16, 2018
    mcvey, Jan 16, 2018
    #26
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  12. Birmingham

    Birmingham Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    At 34lbs over his natural weight imo he would be a mess, and nowhere near the machine he was. He would be blowing after 3 rounds !
     
    Birmingham, Jan 16, 2018
    Birmingham, Jan 16, 2018
    #27
  13. Birmingham

    Birmingham Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Tua has a much bigger frame than Rocky though
     
    Birmingham, Jan 16, 2018
    Birmingham, Jan 16, 2018
    #28
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  14. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    What ? You don't think he'd be able to fight at 220 ?
    Could you beat him if he was 220 ?
     
    Unforgiven, Jan 16, 2018
    Unforgiven, Jan 16, 2018
    #29
  15. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas FRANKINAUSTIN

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    Marciano would look like a fat calzone at 200+. What's the word for "Butterbean" in Italian? Grosso ***iole?

    Edit: ffs mods.....it's a real Italian word and you censor it out?
     
    FrankinDallas, Jan 16, 2018
    FrankinDallas, Jan 16, 2018
    #30
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