[CLIP] Cus D'Amato reacts to Ali-Liston 2 during Post-Fight Interviews "Not Listons Fault!"

I can in theory believe that Liston didn't want to get up because of a hollering Ali standing above him, but he did an "attempt" to get up, and exposed the back of his head and his neck when he did. That doesn't correspond with him staying down because of Ali, nor does the laughably theatrical rolling around on the flow he did afterwards.

If he could get up but didn't want to with Ali standing above him and acting crazy, you'd rather expect him to stand on one knee and protect himself.

What he does after hitting the deck just doesn't look believable for a second.

 

It bears repeating that Ali cracked Liston just after the opening bell with a hard right and had success connecting on Liston every time he opened up. Meanwhile Liston had only connected once prior to the end of the fight. Given the way the previous minute had unfolded, it's not out of the question that Sonny might have considered staying on the mat given how badly things had gone for him prior to that point.

Also, Floyd didn't have a whole lot of love for Ali, so the fact that he thought it was legit and had a good vantage point to view the shot indicates is pretty telling.

 

So you would rank him above Ruddock, Roy Jones Jr, Ingemar Johannson, Mike McCallum and Holyfield?

 

What's that got to do with anything? The guy cold crack and is noted as a very good puncher. The fact he made their top 100 is worthy of mention.

 

It proves the list is unreasonable. Take out his knockout win over old Sonny Liston and he doesn't even get remembered. He was not a very good puncher. Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, George Foreman, Lennox Lewis THOSE are very good punchers.

 

Ali was a lucky dude, refs and judges loved him!

 

Think the punch was genuine. Also think sonny didn't fancy it afterwards due to the fact Ali pretty much started how he left off in the first fight. Liston was pretty much outmatched and he knew it...to add to that Ali always did have a weird ability to outsyche his opponents. Liston knew the game was up.

 

Of course it dosnt look believable. I agree. He was conscious. But if Sonny decided to act groggy whilst he waited for a count this conceivably could have been his prerogative every bit as much as pretending to be hurt enough in order to be counted out. There was no count. And since Ali was behaving like that we will never know why or if Sonny was pretending or not.

That’s why I believe if Ali had of behaved we would know. If he went to the corner and let Walcott do his job we would know. If Sonny still did all that play acting during a spoken count all the way to ten we could say he opted to be counted out for sure.

Instead Sonny got up and continued without a count. Why wouldn’t he have gotten up during a count if he got one? We can’t say he wouldn’t. And we cant Because of Ali.

But since Ali was horsing around preventing a count it gives Sonny the benefit of doubt that maybe liston could have been playing possum or buying time until Ali was under control..

Sonny was stopped on his feet. Why didn’t Sonny throw himself down as soon as Ali hit him again?

 

Very plausible

 

We are agreed on that we can say for sure that neither Ali nor Walcott behaved as they should have.

 

Ali had actually improved from the first fight...sonny had went backwards. He knew he was outmatched. Pretty sure you could visibly see it as that first round went on. Genuine shot put him over. Its then Liston decides its his opportunity to get out of a fight he knows he won' t be winning. In the heat of the moment trys to take the cowards way out.

In his defence Ali at that point was pretty untouchable. Was like watching poetry n motion back then before he slowed. I m not sure anyone could even come up with a strategy to beat him at that point... Let alone going in and actually beating him. I don' think the slower older version of Liston knew what to do with him. Very very rare talent...Ali at his best.

 

It proves nothing. Any list with 100 names is going to cause arguement and debate.

He "was not a very good puncher". I will address this one when i get some time Wop.

Those names are a who's who of great punchers.

 

He KILLED a man in the ring.

 

I think you have to look at Ali Liston as objectively as possible.. Factually, Liston was past prime and had his problems with drinking, partying and the mafia.. If he got Ko'd or stayed down to save himself from a beating from a up and coming Prime Time Ali .. Then so be it... But if you look at the influence that the Mafia had on him and it carrying on in to the ring, that is also a very plausible argument. I believe Liston had a piece of the pie, money wise, in Ali's first 3 title defenses .. That right there is sketchy as all hell .. I haven't read the Devil and Sonny Liston and I am wondering if it addressed that