[CLIP] Rocky Marciano was a refined boxer by the time he met Joe Louis in the ring

I respect both you and Rez a lot. Here how I see his viewpoint.

Eseentially that there is nothing new under the sun, by the even the 1930's most techniques were already known, highly developed and taught to the best athletes on the planet at that time. They used what worked for them and in doing so became champions in their own time.

There tends to be a bias against the old timers due in part to the **** poor films we have of fights from back then, which were often fuzzy, shakey and occasionally off speed. The film taken back then is distorting the realistic abilities of former champions.

Rez does what he does to try and rectify that bringing the old films into modern HD. Which I probably don't need to tell you is an amazing thing and a tremendous service to boxing as whole. He's collaborated with me before and every time I even think about writing on a black and white fight, I message him to see if he has a clean HD version of it so I can help explain and show the skills that some of the old timers possess. He usually does.

That said the way he approaches these arguments sometime is poorly thought out. He'll provide a short clip and then get into a pissing match when somebody inevitably says it's too small in scope to claim a certain guy is as good as Rez seems to believe he is. He argues poorly despite the invaluable service he provides to boxing as a whole. I'm willing to believe he has far more footage than shows up on here and in his highlights. But while he's watching the clean HD stuff we all have to go off the warped, shakey stuff from the 1930's.

I like him, he's passionate but goes to far sometimes and gets personal. He tends to hurt his own case a bit because of it. Have mercy on the guy, sure he can be a ass sometimes, but he's doing gods work man.

 

Yeah, I think it is..the point that my post was trying to make was that Marciano's whole approach of offense had radically changed in that Moore bout...none of the wild abandon, loading up for that sensational, one punch ending and all that associated wildness that he was sometimes guilty of...instead, he seemed to be fighting more of a steady, methodical, somewhat "programmed" even "robotic" sort of onslaught vs Moore...not "refined" inasmuch as just steady and brutally effective. Marciano really "had it down" with that machine like, unchanging beat down of ol' Archie.

 

You can justifiably make that claim,what no one can do is justify calling him a refined boxer when he met Louis and I would argue he never became one at any stage of his career. That in no way demeans him, its just saying it as it is.

 

I don't believe that Rocky was a "refined boxer" at all when he met Louis. That's stretching it a bit too far. What I'm alleging what he became by that 49th fight of his was something else altogether.

 

Rocky was never a "refined boxer" IMO.

 

You know what I'm going to ask now don't you?

 

I am as big a Marciano fan as anyone here, and I can acknowledge his limitations, short comings, and the holes in his resume. It's too bad certain posters place him on such a high pedestal and overrate some of his victims like lastarza, Matthews, and cockell

 

You nailed it. You know who agrees with you? Charlie Goldman. He said the Moore fight was marcianos best.

I would have liked to have seen the rock in one more fight, vs Patterson in may of 1956. I think he had one more good on left

 

I tend to agree with you Rocky's, physical attributes essentially limit him to only be able to get really good at the swarming half of the boxing game. He did what he had to with what he had. He probably isn't going to outbox anybody, his mastery of the swarming half of the game meant he never really had to either.

 

One thing is sure.. Marciano is the slowest great hw ever on his feet. Foreman got the absurd fame of being slow like a mummy weighing 220-230 pounds and marciano was slow like crap at 185 and nobody mentions this FACT

 

Weirdly enough they are arguably the two best ring cutters heavyweight boxing has ever seen too.

 

I'm not sold a guy as light as Marciano was slower on his feet than all the big greats. Foreman was pretty slow on the whole.

 

Slow feet will learn you that!

 

Foreman never was slow on his feet,in his early career he was pretty dinamic and rocky was pretty ponderous for a 185 guy.
Foreman was more slow with his hands not on his feet

 

Just because Marciano is 185 doesn't mean we judge him more harshly than a bigger guy like Foreman. They were both heavyweights.

I champion Foreman often but i'd sure never call him dynamic on his feet. Sure he cut the ring off well but "dynamic"? Nah.