Close fight picks

sweet_scientist · May 10, 2008

Just to see where everyone stands on close fights, highlight the fighter you thought won the following fights:

Holmes-Witherspoon

Leonard-Hagler

DLH-Whitaker

DLH-Quartey

DLH-Mosley II

Mayweather-Castillo I

Morales-Pacquaio I

Morales-Barrera I

Morales-Barrera II

Morales Barrera III

Taylor-Hopkins I

Taylor-Hopkins II

Vargas-Wright

Rosario-Camacho

Wright-Simon

Wright-Taylor

Alvarez-Lopez I

Alvarez-Lopez II

Toney-McCallum I

Toney-McCallum II

Barrera-Jones II

Basilio-Gavilan

Benitez-Curry I

Toney-Johnson I

Taylor-Davis Jr.

Arguello-Ramirez

Ramirez-Rosario I

Rosario-Randall I

Toney-Griffin I

Toney-Griffin II

Pacquiao-Marquez I

Pacquiao-Marquez II

Norton-Ali II

Norton-Ali III

Quartey-Lopez

Haugen-Camacho I

Haugen-Pazienza I

Pedroza-Lockridge I

Pedroza-Lockridge II

Pedroza-Laporte

Cotto-Mosley

Jones-Tarver I

Nelson-Martinez I

Legra-Famechon

Castillo-Johnston I

Castillo-Johnston II

Vasquez-Marquez III

Pavlik-Taylor II

Chavez-Laporte

Hopkins-Cazaghe

Hopkins-Wright

Spinks-Davis

sweet_scientist · May 10, 2008

My answers:

Holmes-Witherspoon

Leonard-Hagler

DLH-Whitaker

DLH-Quartey = Draw

DLH-Mosley II

Mayweather-Castillo I

Morales-Pacquaio I = Draw

Morales-Barrera I = Draw

Morales-Barrera II = Draw

Morales Barrera III = Draw

Taylor-Hopkins I

Taylor-Hopkins II = Draw

Vargas-Wright = Draw

Rosario-Camacho

Wright-Simon

Wright-Taylor

Alvarez-Lopez I

Alvarez-Lopez II = Draw

Toney-McCallum I

Toney-McCallum II

Barrera-Jones II = Draw

Basilio-Gavilan

Benitez-Curry I

Toney-Johnson I = Draw

Taylor-Davis Jr.

Arguello-Ramirez

Ramirez-Rosario I

Rosario-Randall I = (draw, but Rosario takes it under they system they were using)

Toney-Griffin I = draw

Toney-Griffin II

Pacquiao-Marquez I

Pacquiao-Marquez II = draw

Norton-Ali II = draw

Norton-Ali III - haven't seen it in it's entirety yet, will do though

Quartey-Lopez = draw

Haugen-Camacho I = draw

Haugen-Pazienza I

Pedroza-Lockridge I = draw

Pedroza-Lockridge II

Pedroza-Laporte = draw

Cotto -Mosley

Jones-Tarver I = draw

Nelson-Martinez I

Legra-Famechon (interesting fight though, Famechon kept on slipping, and some of those slips could have been ruled knockdowns becuase he was being hit before he slipped. On some rounds I gave Legra the benefit of the doubt and scored an extra point to him, on others I didn't, but I could see others doing it. A fight worth reviewing......)

Castillo-Johnston I

Castillo-Johnston II

Vasquez-Marquez III (because I scored the last round 10-7, I had Vasquez by a point, it's controversial though....)

Pavlik-Taylor II

Chavez-Laporte

Calzaghe-Hopkins

Hopkins-Wright = Draw

Spinks-Davis

salsanchezfan · May 10, 2008

.............S_S, you really had Lopez-Alvarez II a draw? I thought Lopez very clearly outworked him. It was about even through six, and then Lopez ran the tables.

sweet_scientist · May 10, 2008

salsanchezfan said:

.............S_S, you really had Lopez-Alvarez II a draw? I thought Lopez very clearly outworked him. It was about even through six, and then Lopez ran the tables.
Click to expand...

I was crediting Alvarez a lot for his harder blows, Sal. Lopez was landing a lot more, but I think some were being semi-blocked with Alvarez's guard.

Got no problem with someone that has it for Lopez close, but I don't think Lopez ran away with it.

SuzieQ49 · May 10, 2008

Holmes-Witherspoon- 114-114 draw

Leonard-Hagler- 115-113 leonard

DLH-Whitaker- 114-112 Oscar De La Hoya

DLH-Quartey- 114-113 Oscar De la Hoya

DLH-Mosley II- 115-113 Oscar De La Hoya

Mayweather-Castillo I- 115-113 Floyd Mayweather

Morales-Pacquaio I- 114-114 Draw

Morales-Barrera I- 115-112 MAB

Morales-Barrera II- 115-113 Morales

Morales Barrera III- 115-113 MAB

Taylor-Hopkins I- 114-113 Hopkins

Taylor-Hopkins II- 115-113 Taylor

Vargas-Wright- 114-114 Draw

Rosario-Camacho- Never scored it

Wright-Simon- 116-112 Wright

Wright-Taylor- 114-114 Draw

Alvarez-Lopez I- Never Scored it

Alvarez-Lopez II- Never Scored it

Toney-McCallum I- 116-113 James Toney

Toney-McCallum II- Never Scored it

Barrera-Jones II- never scored it

Basilio-Gavilan- never scored it

Benitez-Curry I- never scored it

Toney-Johnson I- never scored

Taylor-Davis Jr.- never scored

Arguello-Ramirez- never scored

Ramirez-Rosario I- never scored

Rosario-Randall I-never scored

Toney-Griffin I- never scored

Toney-Griffin II- never scored

Pacquiao-Marquez I- 113-112 Pacman

Pacquiao-Marquez II- 115-113 pacman

Norton-Ali II- 6 rounds to 5 1 even Muhammad Ali

Norton-Ali III- 8 rounds to 7 Muhammad Ali

Quartey-Lopez- 115-110 Quartey

Haugen-Camacho I- 114-113 Camacho

Haugen-Pazienza I- never scored

Pedroza-Lockridge I- never scored

Pedroza-Lockridge II- never scored

Pedroza-Laporte- never scored

Cotto-Mosley- 115-113 Cotto

Jones-Tarver I- 116-112 Jones

Nelson-Martinez I never scored

Legra-Famechon- never scored

Castillo-Johnston I- 115-114 Castillo

Castillo-Johnston II- Never scored

Vasquez-Marquez III- 114-113 Vasquez

Pavlik-Taylor II- 116-113 Taylor

Chavez-Laporte- never scored

Hopkins-Cazaghe- 114-113 Hopkins

Hopkins-Wright- 116-112 Hopkins

Spinks-Davis- never scored

janitor · May 11, 2008

What about Wolgast Rivers?

SuzieQ49 · Jun 8, 2008

Pavlik-Taylor II- 116-113 Pavlik

Damm sorry about the typo

SuzieQ49 · Jun 8, 2008

116-113 Pavlik

SuzieQ49 · Jun 8, 2008

IT wont let me edit, Pavlik beat taylor by 3 points to clarify

SuzieQ49 · Jun 8, 2008

Pavlik-Taylor II - 116-113 Pavlik

JohnThomas1 · Jun 8, 2008

SuzieQ49 said:

IT wont let me edit, Pavlik beat taylor by 3 points to clarify
Click to expand...

You don't say

:smoke

divac · Jun 9, 2008

salsanchezfan said:

.............S_S, you really had Lopez-Alvarez II a draw? I thought Lopez very clearly outworked him. It was about even through six, and then Lopez ran the tables.
Click to expand...

This is what I shake my head at when I look at Scientists scorecards.....You get the sense that he appreciates good boxing, but its puzzling to me that he looks at a fight like Lopez-Alvarez II, where I agree with you Sal, where Lopez not only outworked him, but contrary to Scientist belief of Alvarez catching shots on his arms or elbows, I thought Lopez landed consistently with clean hard shots in that last half of the fight.
That Lopez-Alvarez match, was imo reminicent of the JMM-Pac rematch, a taxing fight no doubt for both Lopez and JMM, but a fight where both showed a clear discrepancy in skill level almost thoughout the fight.......yet is puzzling to me that a man who enjoys pure skill, comes up with a reason to score them draws......he thought Alvarez and Pac scored with harder shots of the fight!:nut

I'm just baffled.....Scientist marvels at the non-effort that Whitaker displays with his punching leverage on his punches......yet he fails to credit the true boxer that is actually putting some umph on his shots.

Its just baffling to me!

sweet_scientist · Jun 9, 2008

divac said:

This is what I shake my head at when I look at Scientists scorecards.....You get the sense that he appreciates good boxing, but its puzzling to me that he looks at a fight like Lopez-Alvarez II, where I agree with you Sal, where Lopez not only outworked him, but contrary to Scientist belief of Alvarez catching shots on his arms or elbows, I thought Lopez landed consistently with clean hard shots in that last half of the fight.
That Lopez-Alvarez match, was imo reminicent of the JMM-Pac rematch, a taxing fight no doubt for both Lopez and JMM, but a fight where both showed a clear discrepancy in skill level almost thoughout the fight.......yet is puzzling to me that a man who enjoys pure skill, comes up with a reason to score them draws......he thought Alvarez and Pac scored with harder shots of the fight!:nut

I'm just baffled.....Scientist marvels at the non-effort that Whitaker displays with his punching leverage on his punches......yet he fails to credit the true boxer that is actually putting some umph on his shots.

Its just baffling to me!
Click to expand...

Are you claiming that Lopez was landing the harder shots than Alvarez? You can't possibly be. He simply didn't. He landed more , but Alvarez was shaking him when he was landing. As was Pac on Marquez for that matter in their first AND second fight.

Whitaker might have been putting in non-efforts in his punches, but I can't credit his opponents for putting umph into their air swings.

Let me just make another point here, to clear myself of apparent contradiction.

Sometimes I score fights where I think a fighter landed the harder punches: e.g. Hagler vs. Leonard and sometimes I credit the fighter that landed more, e.g. Whitaker vs. DLH.

On the face of it, that looks like I'm applying contradictory standards. But I don't think I am. Let me explain:

If I think a fighter is landing a LOT more punches than the fighter landing the harder punches, I'll be inclined to go with the fighter landing the more punches. If however I see that there isn't that much of a discrepancy in the amount of punches landed, I'll go for the harder puncher.

However if there isn't that much of a discrepancy in the quality of power punches in comparison to non-power punches, then I'll likely go for the fighter that lands more, even if it's not that much more. If I think there's a big discrepancy in the quality of the shots, then I'll probably go for the fighter landing the harder shots, even if he lands quite a few less than the other fighter.

It's not exactly a science, but I don't think I'm caught in contradiction in my scoring methods. Maybe I misjudge it sometimes (who doesn't?) but I think I'm fairly consistent in how I score fights.

BTW, Vlade, notice how I didn't put Whitaker-Chavez up as a close fight? :good

divac · Jun 9, 2008

sweet_scientist said:

Are you claiming that Lopez was landing the harder shots than Alvarez? You can't possibly be. He simply didn't. He landed more , but Alvarez was shaking him when he was landing. As was Pac on Marquez for that matter in their first AND second fight.

Whitaker might have been putting in non-efforts in his punches, but I can't credit his opponents for putting umph into their air swings.

Let me just make another point here, to clear myself of apparent contradiction.

Sometimes I score fights where I think a fighter landed the harder punches: e.g. Hagler vs. Leonard and sometimes I credit the fighter that landed more, e.g. Whitaker vs. DLH.

On the face of it, that looks like I'm applying contradictory standards. But I don't think I am. Let me explain:

If I think a fighter is landing a LOT more punches than the fighter landing the harder punches, I'll be inclined to go with the fighter landing the more punches. If however I see that there isn't that much of a discrepancy in the amount of punches landed, I'll go for the harder puncher.

However if there isn't that much of a discrepancy in the quality of power punches in comparison to non-power punches, then I'll likely go for the fighter that lands more, even if it's not that much more. If I think there's a big discrepancy in the quality of the shots, then I'll probably go for the fighter landing the harder shots, even if he lands quite a few less than the other fighter.

It's not exactly a science, but I don't think I'm caught in contradiction in my scoring methods. Maybe I misjudge it sometimes (who doesn't?) but I think I'm fairly consistent in how I score fights.

BTW, Vlade, notice how I didn't put Whitaker-Chavez up as a close fight? :good
Click to expand...

You score consistently?

The way you've layed it out in your explanation, you sure give yourself enough wiggle room for dishonesty!:nut

Let me just bring up a fight that is fresher in most peoples mind as it is a recent fight......the JMM-Pac rematch.....

......and I'm adamant about this, Pac imo only landed the harder shots that shake as you put it, in rounds 3 and 10, but other than those rounds, I dont see any clear indication that one fighters shots were shaking the other more.....

....except to say that it was JMM in most of the rounds that landed with cleaner, crisper, and overall consistently more telling shots.
......yet because there were two rounds in the fight where JMM was shaken, you've come up with the theory that Pac was landing the harder shot.
I disagree and I do so vehemently when it comes to the overall landing of harder shots on the average in the whole entire fight, which means 12 rounds.

......when you look at the overall picture, and do so round by round, its elementary in both those fights, JMM-Pac and Lopez-Alvarez rematches, who landed consistently cleaner and harder in a round by round basis.

The way you're putting it or seeing it, you get a sense that you're picking the best 5-10 punches in the fight, and coming to a conclusion or the winner basing it on that.
Its just an erroneous and flawed way of coming up with a winner.

Round by round my friend, I know you dont think so, but I get a stong sense that you take what a fighter did in a previous round and bring it up with you to another round.
.....again, just a flawed way of scoring a fight.

Thread Stealer · Jun 9, 2008

Holmes-Witherspoon: Spoon 115-114

Leonard-Hagler: Hagler 115-113

DLH-Whitaker: Draw 113-113

DLH-Quartey: Quartey 115-112

DLH-Mosley II: DLH 115-113

Mayweather-Castillo I: Mayweather 115-112

Morales-Pacquaio I: Morales 115-113 or 116-112

Morales-Barrera I: Barrera 115-113

Morales-Barrera II: Barrera 115-114

Morales Barrera III: Barrera 116-113

Taylor-Hopkins I: Draw 114-114

Taylor-Hopkins II: Hopkins 116-113

Vargas-Wright: Wright 115-113

Rosario-Camacho: Rosario 116-113

Wright-Taylor: Wright 116-113

Toney-McCallum I: Toney 116-112

Toney-McCallum II: McCallum 114-113

Toney-Johnson I: Toney 115-112

Ramirez-Rosario I: Ramirez 115-113

Pacquiao-Marquez I: Pacquiao narrowly

Pacquiao-Marquez II: Marquez 114-113

Quartey-Lopez: Quartey

Pedroza-Lockridge I: Pedroza but do not remember the score

Pedroza-Laporte: Laporte by DQ is my card

Cotto-Mosley: Cotto 115-113

Jones-Tarver I: Jones 115-113

Vasquez-Marquez III: Draw

Pavlik-Taylor II: Pavlik 115-113

Chavez-Laporte: Draw

Hopkins-Cazaghe: Hopkins 115-112

Hopkins-Wright: Hopkins 116-113, but I was drunk.

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