CMV: I think Usyk beats any version of Ali

It's about styles though.

Foreman for example I think would struggle against Usyk because he had issues vs boxers/movers and I don't think he has the cardio levels to live with Usyk in the later rounds.

Now Foreman destroyed Frazier but stylistically I think Frazier matches up alot better with Usyk and that's the beauty of the sport styles make fights.

Frazier excelled vs boxers unlike Foreman and he also has the workrate and stamina to live with Usyk in the later rounds. I honestly believe an elite swarmer is a bad style match up for Usyk because he can't stop the forward momentum of the relentless Frazier. And unlike some of these Super Heavyweights now Frazier doesn't slow down late on in fights.

 

So tell me why the 6'6 240+ pound Jack O'Hollaran, 6'6 250+ pound muscle bound Primo Carnera, the 6'3 390 Dustin Nichols, and the 6'8, 260+ pound David Price get knocked down like Jenga towers by men smaller than them so many times...?

 

That's not what being a traditional pressure fighter usually means. They stay on you like what on rice and never back off. They use head movement to get inside, throw a high volume of shots, are vicious body punchers, and are willing to trade or take a hit to stay at their preferred close range constantly moving forward and suffocating the opponent with non stop pressure.

That's not Usyk and never was. No one said Usyk isn't effective or that he doesn't sometimes pressure opponents, but he's not really a pressure fighter. He's a Hybrid of an in and out ambush fighters similar to Pacquiao with some boxer puncher elements. He certainly isn't "Ken Norton but better".

 

I think Usyk has the power and footwork to keep Frazier off him someone like Tyson would be a harder match-up imo

 

Why is it that Frazier’s and Ali’s knockout rates drop the heavier their opponents get? I’m looking at overall stats and trends, not just isolated examples. You seem to be basing your argument on a few specific fighters rather than considering the broader picture. The reality is that as opponents get bigger, they tend to be harder to stop.

 

My point is that Usyk primarily uses pressure to win his fights. Just because he doesn't operate as a traditional inside fighter like other pressure fighters doesn't mean he isn't one. He applies pressure in his own way, relying on constant feints, footwork, and movement to unsettle and wear down his opponents. It’s still pressure, just executed differently. I’m not sure what else you would call his style if not that.

 

Southpaw Mildenberger gave a prime Ali some problems, and Karl was quite a bit smaller and not as quick on his feet. The OP premise is not fantastical.

 

I personally disagree because i don't see that Usyk hits any harder than Ali especially when Ali sits down on his punches. So i have hard time believing that Usyk could stop the relentless Frazier in his tracks when Ali failed to achieve that feat.

I watched the FOTC again like 2 years ago and i'd actually forgotten how many hard punches Frazier took in that fight. Yes Ali is not a massive puncher but he can hurt fighters with one punch and he was sitting on his punches for alot of this fight and Frazier just kept on coming.

But we can agree to disagree i do think Frazier is a tough match up for Usyk but i do agree Tyson is a tougher one.

 

Usyk weighs more than Ali did in that fight and has demonstrated the ability to hurt super heavyweights, something Ali hasn't shown. Based on that, I'd argue that Usyk likely hits harder. Also, it’s worth noting that Ali did hurt Frazier a few times in their second and third fights. Unlike Ali, I don’t see Usyk sitting on the ropes and letting Frazier tee off on him. But I respect your perspective, and we can agree to disagree.

 

Bob Foster applied pressure as good as they come.

 

I don't...

I think plenty of Top HW's from across the panascope of Boxing beat Usyk.

you do realise there have been Hundreds of TOP Fighters & Champions over the 150 year period of Boxing, there numbers of fighters that could or would beat him.

Usyk, so far just looks a normal good & top fighter... what makes him a Historical standout?

a Subpar Division?? a 3rd Rate Fury???

 

I like Usyk, what he's done.Hes changed the heavyweight division, shaken it up a bit.
But that said, I don't see him beating prime Ali.
Ali had speed, underrated power and confidence like crazy.
Usyk would be good enough to go the distance, win a few rounds but ultimately lose a decision.
Certainly one of the best guys that young Ali would have fought.

 

Naw, you don't need my help

 

I think Usyk would be a stylistic nightmare for Ali. Would he beat him? Maybe. But I would lean toward Ali. Usyk would have much bigger problems with swarmers like Tyson and Frazier imo.