CMV: I think Usyk beats any version of Ali

The topic is interesting.
With a possible first defeat, the story about Usyk would change.
Ali's story will not change.

 

Yes, as I always say when citing past Top Fighters who competed for 15 plus years against dozens of Top Fighters and 'still' remained on Top, were still regarded Top fighters win or lose and even at the end of such long careers were still victors or good fights against anyone...

agree, it, Ali, them as above... it is Already Written, it's Done, it has been accomplished, proven and Recorded... too many factors in Modern Boxing are not yet written, not yet done, never will be done, namely because fighters & managers Won't do it, don't want to do it, don't think they need to do it and think that...

Big ticket TV extravaganza's automatically mean I or we are the greatest.

who ever told them that or persuaded them that.

Let it be DONE, then it will be written.

 

What a good post!

 

Undisputed champion in two different weight classes, multiple wins over significantly bigger opponents, including two highly skilled fighters who outweighed him by 20+ lbs—that’s more than just 'normal good.' Usyk’s accomplishments, especially in a division dominated by size, make him a standout in any era.

 

U seem to be trying to make it into one

 

That's the point of fourms keep up

 

Robert might as well start identifying as an airplane because that went over the head.

 

2015 Fury in particular would be really tough matchup for Ali I think. After that Fury didn't have the same speed and conditioning imo.

 

Seems they were tossing similar terms around in 1966...

"Mildenberger's southpaw stance troubled Clay for a time, especially in the third and fourth rounds when Karl scored heavily with lefts to the head and body." (AP)

Thus, we have what could have been a one-off adjustment to a stylistic challenge or something more key that, if exploited by a better fighter and athlete, might prove challenging to Ali.

I guess that is really hard to grasp.

 

Bro, Ali didn’t even fight southpaws. He didn’t show vulnerabilities against southpaws bc he literally didn’t fight them except Mildenberger.

 

Go back to classic pal.

 

Usyk is so overblown but he is great for this period. The classic forum has tons of resources, personally I read and try to educate myself to a degree before offering too much commentary as I find it to be more productive that way.

Usyk is big and fast and technical and could beat Ali conceivably, any other opinion is too dredged in the Dungeons and Dragons mana/hp/xp lore of how Classic likes to rate boxers and their hypothetical powers. That being said, Usyk hasn't accomplished half of what Ali did in boxing because he didn't fight professionally enough. Usyk also didn't fight as many great names as Ali because they weren't there or available and he isn't incredibly active. 23 pro fights in 12 years, bifrucated between two weight classes means Usyk will never touch Ali's greatness nor strength of opposition at heavyweight.

Ali was also really fast, great feet, all those things we know. But he was a man, and Usyk is an excellent boxer as well. I would actually not want to wager on this fight due to the enormity of stylistic weirdnesses and clashes between the two athletes. It would be a close contest and a very awkward one at that. Does that mean I think Usyk is the #2 all time great? No. It would just be a weird style for Ali to counteract with the tools he had. Ali also doesn't go to the body where Usyk seems vulnerable.

The genesis of the Soviet boxing school that Usyk employs, Ali only saw in amateurs. Ali never had to fight a large Soviet style fighter as a pro as they were not allowed to compete professionally under communism. The majority of evidence and tape is supports an Ali win in my evaluation, but who knows how much sentimentality has crept in with my pick.

 

McGrain as I've said in a previous discussion when I've debated about this fight before when people try to discredit Ali.

Say if Usyk now would've fought a top 10 contender who's a Southpaw and knocked him down 3 or 4 times and stopped him whilst only losing like 2 rounds. Would fans now credit Usyk for a pretty convicing win ? Or would they discredit him ?

I mean if we want to be fickle I could say Usyk would have alot of trouble vs Ali based on losing the first 4 rounds vs Michael Hunter who's a fast skillful smaller Heavyweight.

We can all pick and choose our agenda.

 

Usyk wouldn't either, he don't hit hard enough to cause Norton distress. And Norton's career, he has shown he's very largely far more strong physically and in the clinch than Usyk.

Original topic:

What you said isn't dumb, everyone has their opinions on who would beat who. You appear to be overrating Usyk's ability to pressure someone like Ali a bit. That's one thing. Another, Ali (post sit down), ate Frazier's hooks. Think about that. He ate the hooks and couldn't be stopped from throwing and trying to trade.Then in fight 2 and 3 he won, even with Frazier's tenacity to war.

Usyk, has never shown the ability to war like that ever, not to say he couldn't but it hasn't happened and I don't see that it would. Also, Frazier's left hooks don't come at the same angle as Usyk's left cross, not the same punch and let's be honest, Frazier's had real energy on it. Uysk is not a hitter at all. What would he do when someone who is definitely faster on the release decides this guy won't stop me so let's trade? How do you spin out against someone who's feet are faster? Fury's hands are almost as fast as Usyk's and he was landing, imagine Ali..............

Then to say Ali's boxing circles wouldn't affect Usyk, Fury's boxing circles (a great value version) did. And Ali was far faster and could combination in movement and spin out.

I don't wanna tear down your opinion, but those are just two things that stick out. I'm sure we all can see scenarios where both win, I personally wouldn't favor Usyk, especially not at the point of saying "he beats any version".