CMV: I think Usyk beats any version of Ali

I believe it was @Mike Cannon who said a lot of posters don't see it or don't understand what they are seeing. Ali spent a lot of time in the gym honing his craft.

 

Holmes wasn't a KO artist or a power puncher so not sure why you mentioned him.

Tyson and Shavers both beat several men who were taller and heavier than them, what are you talking about?

The main reason taller heavier fighters get knocked down less often in some cases is because their chin is harder to reach. It's basic anatomy. They sometimes get hit less often than a short aggressive fighter.

 

There isn't proof he'd be bad at it either.

Ali being weak to Orthodox left hooks isn't evidence he'd have a hard time with Southpaw left straights. They're completely different punches. The timing and angles are about as similar as a giraffe and a stingray.

 

May have been.

I've often said that most people don't understand what they're watching or don't have the linguistic ability to describe what they're seeing correctly.

My big pet peeve is "Ali or RJJ had no fundamentals" - that tells me people don't know about boxing fundamentals themselves.

Being unorthodox doesn't mean you don't have fundamentals - often those being unorthodox are very technically sound in what they do and it's their unorthodoxy combined with their speed and reflex that makes them victorious.

Genuine question, if you're faster with hands and feet and have a better reach, why would you stand at mid-range to the inside and get into a slugfest with a shorter swarming fighter? When has it ever been good strategy to negate your natural advantages?

 

This thread makes me question why this forum exists...

"Usyk beats any version of Ali" is just the latest version of a recurrent phenomenon.

"Tyson beats any version of Ali",
"Wlad beats any version of Ali",
I think I even saw once a "gIpSy kING BeATS aNY vERSION oF aLI!!!!" ... but that was probably in general forum where anything goes.

Been done before.

 

Hi Buddy.
Thanks for the nod, still it goes on, the detractors roll out their own version of why Ali wasn't so great, and pitting current or fairly current fighters that would beat Ali, straight of the bat, me, you, nobody knows who beats who in fantasy matchups because of the obvious, but when I read that Ali " tricked " his way to the win over Foreman, or that what he archived, or the way he boxed was not that special, or he was just fast and speedy, it riles and baffles me in turns, if he had not beat Liston, he would prob have reigned until Frazier ( maybe ) if he had not beat Foreman he also would have been champ until he cleaned out the division, or retired.
I think the ( if you will forgive me ) younger generation have no concept of the scope of the victory over both Liston and Foreman, at the time ( this is the salient point ) Liston was viewed as a monster, a living breathing monster, not only were the opponents very afraid of him, so were the police, and the government, he was seen as disruptive, a maleficent, a pyariya, the last thing they all wanted was someone like Liston to ascend to the throne, he was the boogeyman incarnate, a country was afraid of him and his stature, well not everyone, a loudmouthed, brash young contender was acting like he wasn't, when the fight was mooted, the press, the public, genuinely feared for the upstarts life, as they would some 10 years later, no need to elaborate we all know the outcome, then after being exiled for 3 years thus robbing him of his existence, and finances, that by the way some 30/40 years later was seen by many as unjust and downright wrong, he has a couple of warm fights, then fights Frazier who was in his prime, and was ( in my eyes ) only just beaton, I have the fight very close, earlier post were saying about how hard Frazier was landing, but so was Ali, it was not him who needed hospital treatment, and for quite a while, from memory it was one of the first fights to have a computer count on the punches landed by both combatants, and it was 2 to 1 in Alis favour, and these punches were not from the 60s version ( who still hit pretty hard ) but from the 70s version, much stronger, heavier, with a lot more leverage behind the punches, the brave, fearless, warrior that was Frazier was nether the same, but Ali would summon up his courage and mental strength once more, against a foe that had vanquished the indomitable Frazier with utter disdain, brushed aside the fighter who had given him 15 rounds of hell, did that play on his mind, not a jot, in the lead up we all thought it was bravado, whistling past the graveyard, he might a slain a monster once, but that was 10 years ago, and anyway Foreman was bigger stronger, he had laid waste the contenders, Ali was in for a bad beating, or so the world thought, the only way he can we thought was to run, hit and run, do not under any circumstances stand and trade with the monster, he didn't listen, he knew better, Ali was not like any other heavyweight, there has never been a fighter like him, never will most like, he is my number 1 always was, always will be, we should thank our lucky stars he boxed.
stay safe guys, chat soon.

 

Honestly of all the champions I'd give Jack Dempsey the best chance of beating Ali, Vulnerabilities to a left hook is not something you want to have against one of the best at throwing that punch and consider Ali admitted he was out on his feet during the Foreman fight and was dropped HARD by Henry coopers Left hook. One would think Dempsey would have the aggressiveness to give Ali problems.

 

Weight is not a factor for past heavyweights the size of light heavyweights and cruiserweights

Bivol
Ward
Beterbiev
Breidis
Opetaia

Are a few who could prosper in prior eras at heavyweight

 

Nobody will ever convince me that Ali was anything less than the greatest. I think people make comment sometime without watching his fights from an analytical, detached point. He could do everything. Man, I was born in 69 so he wasn't part of my cultural zeitgeist, at least not in the meaningful way he was to those who were 'there' but I miss his presence in the world every day. RIP champ. You were a contradiction, hell, maybe a charlatan, but my you were quite the fighter.

 

You never posted the above opponents best wins. And we know why.

 

"He tricked him."

 

I have more important things to do then get drug into an imaginary fight. I gave my opinions and now I move on.

 

Whatever makes u happy man

 

Then don't post in fourms get in your safe space since you clearly can't actually defend your points.

 

There's nothing to defend LOL you just can't take people who aren't on board with your Usyk fantasy lol keep dreaming