Cocoa Kid -A Mystery No More.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Stonehands89, Mar 3, 2011.


  1. dpw417

    dpw417 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Is a conniption(?)...a good thing?
     
  2. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  3. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    "JUST WATCH MAH SMOKE:" The Secret Journeys of Cocoa Kid

    Part 6 is up. "Top Contender, Adrift"

    --this shines a light on those champions -great champions- who avoided Cocoa Kid (some shamelessly). There is also a frankly shocking revelation about his military service that no one ever knew outside of Cocoa Kid and military personnel in 1944.

    http://www.thesweetscience.com/news...t-watch-mah-smoke-part-6-top-contender-adrift
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Outstanding and horrifying.

    And your write up of the jab was absolutely superb. I shall be quoting.
     
  5. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Maybe my favourite installment yet. This one, more than any other, has me counting down the seconds until the next piece.
     
  6. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Thanks fellas.

    One of the themes of this series is 'secrets' and 'secrets revealed.' Here's a secret of my own: I am utterly convinced that this fighter belongs in the IBHOF. I ended two parts with simple statements about Lou Viscusi and Holman Williams being enshrined. The implication is clear and that is the furthest I go to plug Cocoa Kid. However, I'm hoping that this series will be widely read enough to convince the BWAA and voting members of the IBRO that he belongs in the hall yesterday.

    As you read on, I think that you will see how important it is that this man receive that honor.
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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  8. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    Great installment that, he was some fighter, but man, did he get a raw deal in just about everything.
     
  9. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Why am I not surprised? How did I miss that thread?! You raised good questions and stated the case well. Here's a few things that we can update at this point....

    1. The Jannazzo fight wasn't really for a world title. It was a protest bout because the Maryland Commission was fed up with Armstrong's fighting lesser guys than the #1 contender, Cocoa Kid (April-October 1940). At best, Jannazzo-CK could've gone either way. The Sun and the AP both had CK winning by a fair margin.

    2. Senya's points in your thread are good ones, but it isn't likely that La Cosa Nostra always necessarily had much to do with what was going on with black fighters then -it was the managers. Sharkskin suits may have been in the background at times, but CK's carrying white fighters was usually due to something else. The managers of both wanted to please the crowd and set up rematches at the local venue. Additionally, CK didn't have a choice. Had he insisted on "doing his best" every time he stepped into the ring, he'd have been facing an empty corner.

    3. This fighter was what used to be called a "troubador" -a road warrior. Road Warriors (think Azumah Nelson) were unlike most fighters, who stayed local and fought locals for a buck (think Virgil Hill). He was on a train most of the time, challenging the best on their own turf between both coasts of the U.S and in other countries that bred serious men. As a newcomer to Connecticut, he fires up local legend Louis "Kid" Kaplan. Holman, another road warrior and a puncher then, was like a king down in New Orleans. CK comes in and whips him more than once. He embarasses Chase in his adopted venue in CA, does the same to Portney right there in Baltimore, and on and on....

    3. Cocoa Kid had no amateur experience. He was a professional at 14 years old and had a 20 year career with a ton of fights against a series of Hall of Famers and an army of good to great fighters.

    4. ...and this is the clincher: He had about 38 fights after being diagnosed with dementia. Take a look at the bangers he fought in that condition.

    5. What did he sacrifice for boxing...? The next two installments will let you know.
     
  10. john garfield

    john garfield Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    S89 as boxing's youngest ATG!
     
  11. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    S,I am enjoying this series no end ,particularly because of two boxers you mention fighting Cocoa Kid. I saw one of Cks victims Jimmy McDaniels,a tough tatooed Irishman fighting Ray Robinson,in MSG,1945. Robinson kod tough Jimmy in 2 rds. And of course Jimmy Leto,another tough cookie,who I saw when I was in the Navy.I believe he was retired then. Leto looked like a
    Mafia enforcer.Tough looking hombre. S89,you are today,s W.C.Heinz.:good
     
  12. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This content is protected

    Jimmy McDaniels (photo from boxrec), good enough to handle Ralph Zanelli and Sammy Angott, but couldn't hang with the 'Row.

    This content is protected
    Jimmy Leto was a helluva fighter and Cocoa Kid had a rough time with him. And you're on the money, burt. He looks like an enforcer.
     
  13. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    Stonehands, you maybe cover this in your series, but how do you see a Cocoa Kid - Armstrong bout going.

    I see some attributes of Cocoa Kid spelling trouble for Hank.
     
  14. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    In the early to mid 30s, CK had a problem with shorter, bobbing and weaving, swarming types like Mike Frattini and Battling Battalino. He couldn't handle Ambers either, though that was early on. Given all that, I suspect that Armstrong had the right style to handle CK. Now, Armstrong was slowing down by the time he ran into Zivic, and CK was at his peak, so things might have been different given those variables.

    I think it would've come down to CK's jab. If it moved Armstrong off balance or marked him up, then he'd have had problems all night.
     
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  15. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    Yeh, listening to the Zivic vs Armstrong radio commentary, Zivic's jab and follow up combinations of uppercuts seem to have spelt massive problems for Armstrong, and they sound like CK traits, to me anyway.

    Although as you say Armstrong's style does play to CK's weaknesses.