Cocoa Kid -A Mystery No More.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Stonehands89, Mar 3, 2011.


  1. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Sheeeeit. PowerPuncher just called janitor a gentleman and I agree -janitor is a true gentleman. Me? Nah. I'm working on it though. I like to punch people too much, 'specially when they deserve it.
     
  2. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    'Keep on disagreeing with me! That way we can punch each other and have lots of fun.
     
  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Thanks very much stone.

    What you say is very enlightening but would you place cocoa above burley during armstrong's reign? He seems to be a very good choice for top contender also.

    I'll look over that time scale you mention. I believe in 1942 he has an argument for being top man. Zivic wasn't a very good champion. He was much better as just an opponent who would score great upsets. As a champ his form never really improved and there's a few month in 47 when the kid put on a string of victories better than any other imo.
     
  4. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Burley, Jannazzo, Armstrong himself, and Kaplan have a pretty good argument. Cocoa Kid can be placed at the top for that brief time -but it is arguable. Personally, I'd put Burley over him even then, since Burley was ranked as a WW. The only reason I considered otherwise is that Burley had 0 fights at the WW limit during the time in question. He was pickin' on middleweights.

    As for '42, he was ranked at #4 for two months and otherwise hovered around the mid-range of the Ring rankings. He did well for a spell in there though -avenging himself against one of his bete noir's in Saverio Turiello looks like a highlight. By the way, Bobby Britton is the son of the great Jack Britton -there was one fight with Cocoa Kid where his nerves reportedly got the best of him in the bout.

    In '47 we gotta be careful. His diagnosis of dementia pugilistic was well along by then, though he still could surprise us. That win over Ray Barnes was a shocker. And that loss to Pete Mead was considered yet another robbery.
     
  5. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This content is protected


    A recent photograph of the grave of Cocoa Kid; soon-to-be inducted into the IBHOF.
     
  6. SLAKKA

    SLAKKA Boxing Addict Full Member

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    [;)
    ;)
    And that loss to Pete Mead was considered yet another robbery.[/QUOTE]
     
  7. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    [/quote]
    I just got the pages of Mead's book in the mail.

    Not much there though it was worth a try. Mead remembered that Cocoa Kid had fought his trainer, Wesley Ramey years before and says that he/Mead beat him "without any trouble." "He knew all the moves," Mead says, but could no longer execute."

    He also mentions that CK was part of a group of black fighters who travelled around the country fighting each other -CK, Burley, Williams, Lytell, Moore, and Marshall.
     
  8. SLAKKA

    SLAKKA Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ha, well the Brooklyn Eagle account reads like old welter Cocoa gave Mead some schooling.
    Stony, congrats big time on this historical correction. Cocoas in the HOF
    They must by now wanna do a feature in the CT paps?
     
  9. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    'The majority of the [~3,000 patrons] thought that the worst Cocoa Kid should have gotten was a draw.'
    -NNPA

    I'm gonna check on those CT papers -and maybe rub it in to the CT Boxing Hall of Fame who I contacted months ago and got a measly "thanks for the information." They should have had him in before the IBHOF.
     
  10. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Great work stoney.

    It's been quite a journey from the opening post to induction and I think a lot of us have learnt a lot about cocoa kid in the meantime!

    In the end I think I placed cocoa at the top when armstrong ducked him and he beat williams (going from memory now, but it's in my timeline) up until the point when zivic beat armstrong.

    Any other forgotten greats that could do with being lobbied?
     
  11. hhascup

    hhascup Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Excellent Work !!!

    I helped the CT Boxing HOF get started and I know the people that run it very well. I will contact them about Cocoa Kid if you want.

    Cocoa Kid fought 65 different fighters, a total of 113 times, that were rated in the top 10 by Ring at one time or another. His record was 65-39-7 (2 NC) against them. The 113 is 2nd best all-time among HOF'ers.

    He was 3-3 against World Champions, beating Chalky Wright, Johnny Jadick & Lou Kaplan.
    On the down side, he out weighed Wright by 15 pounds and Kaplan was fighting his last bout. Kaplan lost to a 12-22 fighter just 5 months before he fought the Kid.

    He was 10-7-3 Against HOF'ers, beating Holman Williams 8 times, Lou Kaplan and Chalky Wright.
     
  12. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think that would be a good thing. Hopefully, they're on it already.

    That's a nugget.

    Kaplan was also half-blind at the time but hid it; still, it's impressive work by an 18 year old kid.
     
  13. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    While I'm thinking of it -this thread is due for another comeback because the month of his death-date engraved on the headstone is wrong. It says January, but Hardwick actually died in December 1966. I have the evidence and will check it again to make sure.

    If I confirm with certainty that the month on the headstone is wrong, I'll be contacting the appropriate veterans' administration office to get it corrected.

    One is easy to ignore, so anyone interested in sending an email asking for the same will be invited to.
     
  14. Brauer

    Brauer Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Good read. Around where do you think he ranks in the ATG rankings?
     
  15. hhascup

    hhascup Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yea, but that was Cocoa's 31th fight, so he had experience. Back then they started at a young age.