Cocoa Kid -A Mystery No More.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Stonehands89, Mar 3, 2011.


  1. SNOOPBEE

    SNOOPBEE New Member Full Member

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    Every where you look it is spelled lew or lou in the atlanta papers it was spelled lou i can not prove ceparo was cocoa kid thats what i was told what i need to see are the ship or plaine manuscprits in 1947 or passport showing who boxed in cuba in 1947 a passport or manuscpript would not have said cocoa kid if kid was hardwick then the passport would state he was hardwick unless of corse he was ceparo in which case he would have had a cuban passport and would not needed an american passport !!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Who i had heard was fighting under another name in fl during the 1930-31 peroid of time
     
  2. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    Was it the most important moment in his career?

    I can;t wait for the next instalmment, but the bit I am looking forward to the most is his series with Williams.
     
  3. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I read it and what I saw was a claim that I was disputing that "Hardwick fought in Ohio in the Freddie Miller Stable." Where did I dispute it? Asking to see a source is not 'disputing' it. My mind is wide open.

    Locating the photograph of Cepero is impressive, and I congratulate you for it -but what does it prove?

    DeLisa states that you and he "believe that careful research needs specific documentation" and that is agreeable -however, you seemed to get defensive when I questioned the value of a single line from a questionable source claiming that Cocoa Kid ended up a wino on the streets. Again, Cocoa Kid may have ended up that way -I don't know. But if I went and stated that as a fact, I'd be irresponsible and it wouldn't be "careful research." Most importantly to those of us who do this, it wouldn't be fair to the memory of Cocoa Kid.

    Now, if there was more evidence asserting the wino claim, that's a different story. My mind is open!

    The Ohio article, taken alone, can mean a few things. It can mean that there was another Lewis Hardwick who fought out of Ohio and was in Miller's stable. It can mean that Lewis Hardwick of Atlanta was in Ohio at the end of 1931 but back in Atlanta soon thereafter. Taken alone, it isn't disproving anything in "Just Watch Mah Smoke."

    You and Delisa are on record claiming that you believe that the Louis Hardwick born in 1910 and died in Ohio in 1976 was the same Hardwick campaigning in Atlanta in the late 20s and early 30s.

    That is wrong.

    Here is Ohio Hardwick's death record:

    Name:Louis W Hardwick
    Birth Date:1910
    Gender:Male
    Race:White
    Residence City:Dayton
    Residence County:Montgomery
    Residence State:Ohio
    Residence Country:United States
    Death Date:13 Oct 1976
    Hospital of Death:Home
    City of Death:Dayton
    County of Death:Montgomery
    Certificate:075794
    Age at Death:66
    Certifier:Physician
    Autopsy:No Autopsy performed
    Marital Status:Married
    Census Tract:0010

    This Louis Hardwick is not the Atlanta fighter of the same name in the late 20s and early 30s. This man was white. The Atlanta Hardwick was a "colored" figher on segregated, "all-colored" cards in the deep South.

    My mind is open. Is either of yours?
     
  4. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Hardwick was in West Palm Beach, Florida in the winter of 1932. He was sparring and according to matchmaker Gabe Menendez in The Washington Post (6/12/40), he was fighting for $20 a fight -which was the most a black fighter can command. He was a "scrawny kid with the fastest left hand I ever saw," said Menendez.

    Herbert Lewis Hardwick was 17. Cepero would have been 25.

    Now if you read Part 2, you would have read about a New Haven institution by the name of Harry Durant coming down there for the winter, seeing Hardwick sparring, and luring him up north. That was in the spring of 1932. Thus Hardwick became Cocoa Kid. [Palm Beach Post, 2/21/43; Bridgeport Connecticut Sunday Herald 4/28/57]
     
  5. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yes, the Atlanta papers referred to him as "Lew" and "Lou." Joe Louis began his career being referred to as Joe "Lewis." So we see that the papers, taken alone and in and of themselves are often not enough to establish facts.
     
  6. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I can't say it was the most pivotal moment in his career, only that it might have prevented him from having a pivotal moment in his career. There's more shadiness coming so that aspect of his story isn't over yet.

    Williams is in the dressing room. He'll appear in Part 5.
     
  7. SNOOPBEE

    SNOOPBEE New Member Full Member

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    Sep 3, 2007
    Gabe Menendez WAS MATCHMAKER FOR THE CUBAN CLUB IN THE 1930 -31 ERA IN TAMPA WHERE THEY USED CUBAN BOXERS CAN YOU FIND ANY RESULTS FOR HARDWICK IN FL ,ALSO IN THE ATLANTA NEWSPAPERS YOU RESEARCHED DID YOU FIND ONE PHOTO OF HARDWICK ,THE HARDWICK THAT BOXED IN ZANESVILLE OHIO WAS DEFINITELY THE HARDWICK FROM GA. AS WHEN HARDWICK BEAT PEDRO BENITEZ IN PUERTO RICO THEY SAID HE WAS A NORTH AMERICAN NEGRO FROM GA AND ACCOMPANIED BY HIS MANAGER DANNY DAVIS ,HEY I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO FIND THE ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION FOR YEARS. IN 1948 WHEN COCOA WAS TALKING ABOUT HIS CAREER HE STATED THAT HE HAD A DAUGHTER IN COLLEGE NOW THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN DIFFICULT NOT IMPOSSIBLE IF HE WAS ONLY 34 YEARS OLD. WHY WAS HE CONTINUOUSLY CHANGING HIS GIVEN NAME TO LUIS HUMBERTO ETC TO ME THERE IS ONLY ONE ANSWER TO STAY ONE STEP AHEAD OF IMMAGRATION
     
  8. SNOOPBEE

    SNOOPBEE New Member Full Member

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    Sep 3, 2007
    when you think about it maybe hardwick chainged his name to cocoa kid because he was wanted by the law as im sure you have read that cocoa kid was arrested several times beleive me i have no answer only thoughts and reading and what many oldtimers have told me
     
  9. SNOOPBEE

    SNOOPBEE New Member Full Member

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    Sep 3, 2007
    By the way have you ever seen joe jeanettes death cert he was listed as white
     
  10. SNOOPBEE

    SNOOPBEE New Member Full Member

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    Sep 3, 2007
    i see no place of birth in 2006 it was listed as ga.beleive me i have been searching this for years now living in the tampa bay area if i had access to a ride i could go to the library here and get all the results from the cuban club during that peroid of time -----------he may not have been ceparo or hardwick
     
  11. SNOOPBEE

    SNOOPBEE New Member Full Member

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    Sep 3, 2007
    was henry durant a judge
     
  12. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I did not find any results from Florida -in fact, the only hint I have that he even fought down there is that piece from the Post. I found no photo of Hardwick in any Atlanta papers, though that wasn't surprising. The Atlanta Constitution didn't have too much to say about the "negro" bouts. It describes him as a busy puncher, "agile," "popular" in the black community and that he "packs a mean left and his right is equally dangerous."

    Not at all. A sixteen year old kid is perfectly able to become a father -it happens in high school across America constantly.

    Danny Davis may well have functioned as Hardwick's manager for that fight in Mayaguez in '30 and remained so in '31. However, that Hardwick isn't the guy who died in '76.

    Like I said before, I have a Herbert L. Hardwick and an E.A. Robinson listed as passengers on a ship coming from San Juan to the states in October 1930. Hardwick and Robinson list the same address right there on Auburn Ave in Atlanta. Every other passenger aboard has a Spanish name. That is the Hardwick who became Cocoa Kid. An article from the Holyoke Daily Transcript and Telegram -circa 5/1933- confirms that this same Robinson was his uncle who first managed him in Atlanta, raised him after his parent died, and had a hand in his affairs in New Haven, Connecticut.

    This Herbert Lewis Hardwick is Cocoa Kid. Any theory that would deny it is going to have to uncover a vast conspiracy discrediting many different sources. That conspiracy doesn't exist.


    There is another answer. Keep reading the series and it will all come together.
     
  13. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Well, like I said before- I have been familiar with your theory for years (and your well-earned status in the boxing world!). I thought it was very interesting and sensible.

    This series shouldn't be taken as a challenge to either you or DeLisa or anyone else. I only hoped to uncover the truth as best I can to honor the memory of a great and forgotten fighter.
     
  14. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Durant was a judge, a state senator, a lawyer, an angler, a manager of stage stars, a world traveller, and an author as well as a boxing aficionado.

    He wrote a book of boxing stories that I believe he wrote himself as a young man. The title of it? "Wallops"
     
  15. SNOOPBEE

    SNOOPBEE New Member Full Member

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    Sep 3, 2007

    this is getting stranger by the minute thats what the old promoter told me that also told me he was cuban