Coming Soon - In the Ring With Jack Johnson Part II: The Reign

I'm defending and praising the book, which I have bought, Mendoza is attacking direct quotes from it, calling them garbage, quotes he has not even read.

He stated Choynski was said by many to be 6'1" if that is the case it should be easy enough to find one quote and post it. He made the assertion for one reason, and if you cant figure out what that is you are the tool ,along with him of course.
Read the posts again.

NB I posted this on page 4 of this thread but the hater can't resist it.


"Adam has given the Classic a heads up when his second volume of Jack Johnson is out.

Don' t turn this into another hate and tear down Johnson campaign on the man's thread.
Have some courtesy for a poster who has diligently pored over newspapers and articles ,and devoted a great deal of time and effort to produce a thoroughly referenced book to sit with his first volume
.A poster who is worth a million of you"

You've been here what, 8 weeks, made 33 posts and you now all about it do you?
ps I've just read your total content on this forum ,[it took all of 2 minutes] I won't divert the direction towards it because frankly it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
Have you lost your way from the General Forum?

 

johnson is further away from the camera...perspective is playing a little part there.

 

Mendoza doesn't do perspective.

 

McVey (and also Mendoza), I don't think Brock Rock is so much complaining about the boxing related substance of your (singular and plural) posts, as your manner of their addressing one another, which (carried on ad infinitum) often comes to dominate threads and distract from their intent.

Brock Rock, I'm with you in encouraging Mendoza and McVey to refrain from filling threads with invective; may I suggest that, we people discourage others from being villific, you should avoid framing your own thoughts villifically?

 

Interesting that while, immediately post-Ketchel-Johnson, there was much speculation that Jack's going down was a Johnsonian shennanigan calculated to boost interest in the films, no one suggested that Ketchel might be party to such a ruse.

--------

Reads like Ketchel had become a full-flegged light heavyweight.

 

I doubt this. There is a photo of Johnson standing behind Choynski, with each man stretching their arms out. Choynski looked slightly taller and a bit longer in reach. Johnson has broader shoulders but shorter arms.

The striking distance advantage Johnson had was over much shorter opponents. Height plays a huge role when targeting the head. Burns at 5'7" had to reach way up to land head shots, while Johnson straight shot at shoulder length lined up perfectly with Burns's face / chin. The more you reach up, the less striking distance you have.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ohnsonChoy.jpg

I know something about photography. What is he, 6 inches away? I'd say so. Look at the distance between their feet.

Both guys are in bare feet with their legs locked. Its clear Choynski is a shade taller, and has longer arms. What's the big deal?

 

I'm not panning the book or parsing it. Based on pervious work I’d venture a guess it's a good read. McVey suggested I read it, and I explained why I had little interest. There’s too much selective truth written about Johnson. He was a bad man. Right up there with Monzon and McCoy. The best balanced work I read on Johnson is Unforgivable blackness. This book offers the good, the bad, and the ugly

As I said before should I purchase Adam's book and quote it here, McVey would be at an uncomfortable disadvantage because one cannot praise a book, and at the same time conveniently ignore what was written in it.

 

Maybe I should ignore him. Its clear who soils these threads first. My post was for Klompton, and he jumped in. The old man just can't help himself. See page 5.

 

Your not parsing the book? Based on pervious work? Good job your not a reviewer with your command of the language.
I never ignore the truth , you have yet to discover it.

 

Nothing Brock Rock has to say has any interest to me he's made under 40 posts, all of them ****, here is a sample of how he operates.

"You need to get Wlads nuts out of your mouth. Its disturbing how much you over rate him.

Carnera and Baer both finish Wlad within 8 rounds.

Max Schmeling put's Wlad in hospital for weeks"
Here's another

"Of course you'll say this so it makes your boyfriend Wlad look better.

Bruno KO 6"



Do you seriously think I give a knob like him any credibility?

 

You never ignore the truth? That is perhaps the biggest lie you ever said here. As someone else stated, stop replying to me in this thread.

 

I'll reply to any public post I choose .
Adam's new book has some wonderful information in it including the fact that it was Jeffries who stipulated his fight with Johnson should be over 45 rounds and also that he had been training for over a year prior to the fight.
Adam has provided loads of news reports on the Johnson OBrien fight, some of them confirm Johnson was not in good condition . Of the verdicts given by the papers a few gave OBrien a draw , but most thought Johnson deserved the verdict , none that Adam produced gave the fight to O Brien.

Some of the language Jeffries used about Johnson leading up to the fight shows his true character and feeling regarding black people.He sure had it coming.

Famous trainer Billy Madden said Johnson would have beaten any version of Jeffries. The round by round summary of the fight proves Johnson was Jeffries master when it came to strength, he tied him up and put him where he wanted, something which astounded Tom Sharkey!
I'm still waiting for you to produce ONE primary source that states Choynski was 6'1".

Adam's book has many photos of Choynski in Reno with Corbett and Jeffries,they indicate he was shorter than either of them.

Adams new book is far superior to Unforgivable Blackness because he gives so many primary sources for his quotes and information.

Along with volume one , it is the benchmark work on Jack Johnson.

 

You really are a moron.

I did not say a primary source said. Can you figure out the difference?

If you want to see a source that says Choynski was over 6 feet tall, use Wiki which says Choynski was over 6 feet tall.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Choynski

As for a primary source on a tale of the tape, what better source than a clear photograph as presented?! Clearly Choynski is taller in the photo, and the two are barefoot, standing perhaps 6" apart. DUH.

I would argue a photo in the context of this question is as primary as you can get. And it needs no 3rd party interpretation! We can see for ourselves. DUH

Corbett and Jeffries was a little talker than Choynski, I agree with that.

I used to wrestle back in my high school days, and I can tell you this. It's easy to out muscle a tired opponent. That's what Johnson did to Jeffries later in the fight. It’s also easy to bend arms when you have leverage and the other person is tired and not suspecting it.

But on film when they locked up and Jeffries had some stamina left, its clear Jeffries pushed Johnson backward. Watch the films!

I have little doubt Adam's work is quality. But I think he won't explore Johnson's dark side as much as Unforgivable Blackness did. Was Johnson guilty of the Mann Act. I say yes, because his nightclub doubled as a *****house in Chicago. If any woman went across the state line with some assistance to be there, you can say its volition of the Mann Act.

Even if Johnson may have been railroaded, the conviction in a way is similar to getting Al Capone on taxes, even though he committed more serious crimes. In Johnson's case, he's a documented wife beater, a pimp, and says he participated in fixed fights.

 

Then Adam's selectively chose not to offer any primary or secondary sources that said O'Brien won the fight. This is not a fair minded way to allow the reader to decided what happened.

I am disappointed to learn he did this, and consider it a minor blemish on being fair and balanced on what was by most accounts a close fight.

Some sources said O'Brien was the better, and by a boxing standards he was longer in the tooth ( further past his prime ) with more fights by a good margin.

I pulled three sources that said O'brien was better:

The Wilkes-Barre Times Leader had O'Brien winning three rounds, with two even, and 5th round to Johnson (same report was printed in the New York Sun and Washington Herald).

Trenton Times reported that the referee stated he thought O'Brien the winner by a shade.

The Philadelphia Item stated that O'Brien soundly out-boxed Johnson.

 

I was a little precipitate n saying this, some thought Ketchel's announced weights were exaggerated, and neither Ketchel or Johnson weighed in. Apollack does say some opined Ketchel looked rather drawn at the fourth bout with Papke. He was probably now a middle weight with some difficulty.