Coming to a Consensus on the #3 Heavyweight Champion

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by The Undefeated Lachbuster, Dec 4, 2018.



Who deserves #3?

  1. Rocky Marciano

    7 vote(s)
    11.1%
  2. Lennox Lewis

    29 vote(s)
    46.0%
  3. Larry Holmes

    15 vote(s)
    23.8%
  4. George Foreman

    1 vote(s)
    1.6%
  5. Jack Johnson

    4 vote(s)
    6.3%
  6. Jack Dempsey

    3 vote(s)
    4.8%
  7. Evander Holyfield

    2 vote(s)
    3.2%
  8. Wladimir Klitschko

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Mike Tyson

    2 vote(s)
    3.2%
  1. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster Active Member Full Member

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    Lewis should've fought him right after the Tua fight.
     
  2. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He "should've?" Ike went to jail after the Tua fight for kidnapping a kid and then driving into a wall trying to kill himself and the kid. The kid suffered permanent injuries. Ike went to jail for most of the rest of 1997.

    Was Lewis supposed to fight Ike when he was in jail?

    Golota was the "hottest" contender in the division at that time after the two Bowe fights. Lewis fought him.

    And NOBODY was complaining when Lewis and Golota signed to fight.

    Not even Cedric Kushner, who promoted both Ike and Golota. Because, of the two fighters, Golota was the MORE RELIABLE one.

    IKE ruined IKE's career. Every time he got close to a title shot, he went to prison.
     
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  3. cuchulain

    cuchulain Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Well, assuming you have Ali and Louis at 1 and 2, and if you have 4-5-6 as Foreman, Marciano, and Holmes, then our top 6 are in complete agreement.


    You must be a very incisive and perspicacious student of the sport ! :D
     
  4. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster Active Member Full Member

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    He went to jail after the Byrd fight, not the Tua fight
     
  5. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He went to jail after both.That's why he didn't fight for more than a year after the Tua fight.
     
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  6. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders NSB defector Full Member

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    He beat the shadow of Tyson, beating Vitali at that time was not that big of a deal, beating Holy was the best he did, split fights with B lvl Rahman, beat a hype-job in Grant, feasted on B lvl Botha. Tua is a good win. Good reign, not a no.3 reign for me.
     
  7. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The "shadow" of Mike Tyson destroyed Savarese and Golota and Nielsen before that fight. Vitali was the dominant heavyweight other than Lewis that decade. Tua was a dominant challenger. Holyfield held all the other titles.

    Enough of this garbage rewriting history crap.

    No one else on the list beat a collection of challengers like Tyson, Vitali, Holyfield and Tua.

    Joe Roman. Ken Norton and Axel Shulz don't compare.

    Earnie Shavers. Gerry Cooney. Tim Witherspoon don't compare.

    No one.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018 at 8:15 AM
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  8. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders NSB defector Full Member

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    Cool. We've arrived in the zone called 'Let's agree to disagree'.

    Edit: LOL at heavily editing my post btw, that's what I'd expect a Lewis fanboy to do.
     
  9. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'm not a Lewis "fanboy."

    And 'let's agree to disagree' is what I'd expect from someone who realizes he can't name anyone on the list above who beat challengers as good as Tyson, Holyfield, Vitali and Tua ... so he just decides to throw out an insult as he makes his escape.

    If someone else beat better challengers, I'd rate them higher.

    Go ahead. Fill us in on who did? You seem to have someone in mind.

    Oh wait, you can't.
     
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  10. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If made to pick with my mind, it would be Lewis, if made to pick with my heart, it would be Johnson.
     
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  11. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    John L Sullivan was the first media superstar. I was amazed going through papers of the late 1890's at how many articles there were about Sullivan who was by then long retired.

    It is true that boxing exploded in popularity in the 1920's, but so did other sports like college football. The Dempsey-Tunney fight at Soldier's Field did not draw the biggest crowd there. Football games between Army & Navy, and Notre Dame & USC drew larger crowds.

    So it is hard to exactly judge to what extent Dempsey was a cause or just an effect.

    "Both Ruth and Wilt changed the rules of their sports."

    What rule did Ruth change? As for Wilt, yes, but the biggest rule change was the 24 second clock which came earlier.

    Also, rules are always changing to some extent in all sports.

    And, did Dempsey cause rule changes because he abused the old rules so obviously, standing behind opponents who were down and hitting them when they were trying to get to their feet?
     
  12. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Rather than a rule change, Ruth changed the nature of baseball from a small ball, singles, one run at a time game to a HR, I don't care if I strike out game. One rule change was a ball bouncing into the stands was changed from hr to double but I don't know if it was changed because of Ruth.

    5 second rule under the basket was also instituted because of Wilt.

    College football, tennis and golf were certainly big time, but baseball was the nation's pastime.

    Regarding Dempsey standing over his opponent....everybody did that. It was legal.
     
  13. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    "Dempsey standing over his opponent"

    I can't remember anyone else on film standing or trying to stand behind his opponent to hit him before he turned around. Most stand ahead of the opponent and move in quick, although that was bad enough.

    "baseball was the nation's pastime"

    Which has what to do with Dempsey?

    Prior to the 1920's, the largest baseball crowd, and pro sports crowd in general, was 47,000 for a 1916 World Series game. In the 1920's, the largest baseball crowd was 85,265 for a 1928 doubleheader at Yankee Stadium, a huge attendance for a sport with such a large playing field.

    Of the American popular sports, in my estimation basketball and football have changed by far the most. An old boxing match, even Fitz-Corbett, does not seem THAT different if compared to an old basketball game versus the modern NBA or an old four yards and a cloud of dust football game versus the modern NFL.

    "the ball bouncing into the stands"

    Going back into the dead ball era, the outfield fences were often so far away that they didn't matter, actually as far as 600 feet in one case. Ty Cobb always maintained that in "real" baseball the fences should never be so close that the outfielders could not play most balls, but the fences moving in seems to have begun happening before Ruth although it has accelerated since him. In the World Series and other big games, the crowds often stood behind the players in the outfield in those days.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018 at 4:08 PM
  14. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Baseball stadiums were so far away...yet crowds often stood behind the players. Mutually exclusive statements. Fields were very odd shaped. .could be very deep to center, like the Polo Grounds where I actually attended a game, but the left and right field were short...257 to right and 279 to left. In Ebbetts Field fly ball could hit the overhangs and become homers . Other fields , like Forbes in Pittsburg and Braves field in Boston, were huge. Fenway And Wrigley are still around....check out those dimensions. So yes, balls did bounce into stands.

    Attendance at th e 1925 Rose Bowl was 53,000.

    We were talking about how popular Dempsey vs Ruth and boxing vs baseball that's why I mentioned the national pastime.

    More people attended baseball games in the 1920s, more people played baseball in the 1920s than any other sport. The stats are out there, look them up.
     
  15. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Right back at ya :D
     

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