Comments made after Jeffries-Corbett II

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by guilalah, Dec 17, 2010.


  1. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,355
    306
    Jul 30, 2004
    p.617 "Jeffries is a great fighter. He has strength and lots of science, and can make any fighter in the world look like 30 cents."
    -- John L Sullivan

    pp.616-617 "Corbett's excuse that Jeffries was too big for him will reasonably explain his defeat to his own satisfaction, but it is doubtful if the result would have been any different if there was parity of equality in their respective weights. Jeffries' fighting qualities would have offset any little advantage Corbett might have had in the matter of boxing skill, and it is the fighting ability which tells."
    -- 'Police Gazette'

    p.616 "It was not the Jeffries that fought Sharkey and Fitzsimmons ... The improvement in his style, speed and agility was simply marvelous."
    -- Jimmy Britt

    p. 615 "(Jeffries) never stood, as in other fights, stolidly in his place, doubled into a defensive crouch, but kept on the move with an agility that he never showed before ..."
    -- Tom Corbett (Jim's brother)

    p. 614 "George Siler said that unlike their first fight, Jeffries 'did not rush at him and swing wildly, but moved swifty toward him, measured his distance carefully, and did not attempt to hit unless Corbett was within distance."

    p.614 "(Jeffries) clumsy leads were absent; his awkward efforts to set himself after missing were a thing of the past. In the year since he beat Bob Fitzsimmons ... he has added wonderful science to his enormous bulk and unbeatable strength. He could have acquired this knowledge in but one way -- from Bob Fitzsimmons, with whom he toured the country and boxed almost nightly.'
    -- attribution not clear; I gather, from previous page, that this was from a local report

    p. 612 "Jeffries showed wonderful improvement. He fought better and faster than he did when he met Fitzsimmons in this city (1902). He hit even harder and his blows had more direction ... Jeffries showed grand science and great hitting power. He boxed as well as Corbett and was strong as a lion ...
    "I was not prepared to see Jeffries outbox Corbett. He lost none of his overwhelming strength by taking on the newly acquired quickness, and every blow told ..."
    -- referee Eddie Graney

    p. 609 "Jeffries suprised me. He has made wonderful improvement. I never saw him so fast. I am certain that he was not that quick when he fought Fitzsimmons. His footwork has improved and his hitting is cleaner. He did not employ his crouch in the manner that he did in our previous contest. ...
    "... He is just as strong as he ever was, much cleverer and in the ring tonight his speed was a revelation to me."
    -- James J Corbett

    p. 613 "Before last night's encounter I thought a clever, strong man could beat him, but when he stepped into the ring and showed as much science as Corbett I was forced to take off my hat and acknowledge his superiority."
    -- Tommy Ryan
     
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,627
    27,316
    Feb 15, 2006
    I always thought that Jeffries reached his peak in this fight.

    By this point, he wasnt just bigger than all the other top heavyweights around, he was also a match for most of them in terms of science.
     
  3. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

    42,723
    269
    Jul 22, 2004
    Corbett was nearly 37 and hadn't fought in 3years. Its easier to look better against such a shadow of the original man. The fact Jeffries was improving in his last year of his prime says to me as a boxer he was largely a pretty raw strong man. I think the small amounts of film evidence backs that up
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,172
    48,426
    Mar 21, 2007
    Disagree. I think he continued to improve, and was better with every fight. Not Johnson, obviously.
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,172
    48,426
    Mar 21, 2007
    Relative to his peers, I think that you can't get away with calling him a "raw strong man". Read the OP. His peers viewed him as a good boxer with skill and some speed.

    I agree that Corbett was dragging his ass by this time though.
     
  6. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

    58,748
    21,579
    Nov 24, 2005
    He only fought once after this (excepting Johnson).
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,172
    48,426
    Mar 21, 2007
    Yep, I think the Munro fight was his peak.

    http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=21062&more=1

    So did Jim himself: "I am stronger, faster and heavier than at any other time in my career."
     
  8. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

    42,723
    269
    Jul 22, 2004
    Thats the thing though his peers were Corbett, Johnson, Fitz. And he seemingly wasn't as skilled as either.

    Another problem with objectivity is after a fighter wins, practically everyone says something nice about them. No mainstream journalist would write of Pacquaio today 'well his defense is still a tad open and he still may suffer against a quality counter puncher, but yes a decentish win against Margarito who hasn't had a significant win in 2 1/2 years and looked terrible in his last 2 fights' after hes won his 10,000th title

    Jeffries was a physical force, his skills and package was likely significantly better than someone like Willard for sure but in terms of skill set compared to his peers his pales against the forementioned men
     
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,172
    48,426
    Mar 21, 2007
    I don't think that he was. But then you've listed three master boxers.

    Well people did write negative things about Jeffries earlier in his career in terms of his skills upon his winning. That happened. And actually it's possible to see just such things written about Pacquiao on this very forum.

    None of this really matters. People thought he was fast and skilled. Or pretended to.
     
  10. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

    42,723
    269
    Jul 22, 2004
    1. Yes but I feel there's a clear distance between them. The way I see Jeffries is as a HW version of Ricky Hatton or perhaps a less skilled version of Riddick Bowe. There are cracks there that get exploited but physical gifts allow them to get away with until they run into someone who can exploit them

    2. This is true. And yes Pacquaio has criticism on this forum but every boxer does and that does not extend to the mainsteam press and it doesn't extend to other boxers, bar the Mayweathers and Malignaggi whos a Mayweather fan.

    Boxers tend to have a love/hate relationship with the press depending on where they are on the rollercoaster of their careers. If they are right on top and popular, the press is kissing their ass

    3. But how detailed was their analysis? Thats my point the analysis from press clippings isn't always that good, that educated, or necessarily from someone who has a clue about boxing or is writing about it for any other reason than 'thats my job'. And thats all assuming their isn't other agendas in the press at play.......
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,172
    48,426
    Mar 21, 2007
    Of course there is. I'm not disputing that. I'm telling you that his peers and the press rated him as a good boxer with improved speed and agility. In addition to his other more obvious strengths. If you want to label him a raw strong man, I won't argue with you, I can't be bothered, just know that you are tossing out a huge swathe of testimony from the actual history.
     
  12. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,372
    473
    Oct 6, 2004
    The Riddick Bowe anology is not a bad one, but rather than less skilled, i would suggest more proven is more accurate.
     
  13. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,355
    Jun 29, 2007
    This was my interpretation as well. Jeffries retired just as he was peaking, and had several good years left. Too bad the money in the fight game dried up when Jeffries was hitting his prime. A time when his ample physical gifts could be complemented by years worth of training and experience.
     
  14. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

    38,034
    91
    Nov 10, 2008
    McGrain, very good article.

    To me Jeffries sounds like a Chavez type fighter, would you agree?
     
  15. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,627
    27,316
    Feb 15, 2006
    Well lets look at the facts.

    He gave the smaller Fitz a boxing lesson in their first encounter, after only a dozen or so profesional fights. In the return match Fitz changed his tactics to fight a more mobile fight and outboxed Jeffries, but got broken down on pressure.

    Corbett ran rings around Jeffries in their first encounter, but got broken down on pressure and body punching. In the rematch Jeffries outboxed the ageing Corbett easily.

    I would say that by the time he retired his boxing skill was arguably prety close to this pair and of course he was a lot bigger.

    Now if you put him in with the next teir of technicians such as Ruhlin then he is clearly better.