Common misconception about Floyd not fighting in rhythm........

I think Pacquiao is and would be busier than anyone Floyd has faced, more pressure and more precision combos for Floyd to deal with would inevitably lead to him retreating and adopting these spoiling/illegal tactics.

I can't say I advocate or promote these "defensive" manouvres, but I do think they are very effective and something which would cause Pacquiao problems no end, maybe even cause him to lose his rag.

I think the referee could actually be key to who wins this.

I think Pacquiao has a real chance to have Floyd in all sorts of trouble early and depending on whether Floyd is able/permitted to use MMA-Style defensive manouvres it could be the key to his survival and therefore the actual outcome of the fight too.

IMO, Floyd is shrewd enough to adopt these tactics without incurring too much attention of the referee, although I do feel Roach no doubt fore-seeing these problems and am interested on how he'd combat it.

 

I think your assessing this fight after watching Floyd fight an orthodox fighter, and that's not the right way to do it. Floyd is not the counter punching king when he's fighting a southpaw. He's alot more vulnerable. And you have to consider the fact that he's older now and not as fast as he once was, and he's a lot more lazy in the ring then he used to be. No I don't think he'll just let Pac run him over, but I don't see what he's going to do about Pacquio's offense and speed. Yes he will hit Pacquiao cleanly with jabs and straight right hands, but how many, and is it going to be enough?? At some point Pacquiao WILL force you into a fight, and if you don't back him off he will run you over. I don't think Floyd has the mentality or intangibles to deal with that. Some other guy on the forum said it best : Floyd is great at fighting orthodox fighters, but only very good against southpaws. Is very good enough to beat arguably the best southpaw ever ? Especially at this point in his career, a year+ long layoff? Floyd looked sloppy against Mosley. That version of Floyd can't beat Pac, imo.

and btw, Pacquiao isn't ricky hatton. He's not a reckless aggressive fighter. He's more of a boxer puncher . Who's to say he's going to be pressing the action the entire fight? Pac can wait for Floyd to come in. Floyd fought aggressive against every southpaw he's faced. Sharba mitchell and Corley aren't defensive fighters. They are boxers. Pacquiao can box, move and slug.

 

^ u say Pac doesnht have a jab that is false. And you say he doesnt set up shots which also isnt true. He commonly uses the jab to set up shots, and feints. I know what your getting at , but your underestimating PAcquiao's boxing ability. And I can assure you he knows how to cut off the ring now. He isn't the same guy who fought Marquez. Pac's feet along with speed and feints are what will get him inside. Floyd freaks out under pressure. He won't be countering Manny any time he steps in. Manny comes in quick and behind feints or a jab. For Floyd to open up or try to counter Manny he takes a risk every time and Floyd is not keen on taking those kinds of risks especially with a fast fighter with KO power. Also FLoyd is not the same fighter he once was, this is the fact that people ignore. He's simply not as fast or as good as he once was. And with these long year+ layoffs, he's not doing himself any favors. He will show ring rust if they fight this year, and Manny won't.

 

If there's anything to take away from this thread, log this one in the back of your heads. This is conventional wisdom, but many people don't know it for whatever reasons. There should be space maintained to reap the benefits of the southpaw angles.

 

I know people keep talking about Mayweather whooping emmanuel's AZZ with the jab and right hand, but what do you think of the right uppercut and left hook to the body?

The left hook to the body creates all kinds of openings against a southpaw. An exclusive southpaw disadvantage is that their livers are closer to their opponents lead hands.

 

floyd has a very underrated inside game, and underrated body punching...he is beatable, but the "rough him up" thing would be walking into your own demise, imo

 

Floyd was superb once he started fighting off the back foot vs Jesus Chavez, but he was not so superb when he was trying and failing to dominate Chavez in Chavez's fight, so he is not quite as versatile as you are making out IMO, because if he was super-adaptable and versatile then he would've been able to handle Chavez in Chavez's world. Guys like Ray Leonard and Pernell Whitaker were able to dominate top fighters fighting in completely different ways, but in the Chavez fight Floyd failed to do this. Don't get me wrong, he was brilliant once he started fighting his own fight, but that fight still showed his limitations.

With regard to your other point, you only need a plan B if your plan A doesn't work, and I have faith in Manny's A-game. His speed, power, explosiveness, movement and workrate will be enough IMO. And although Manny does always fight the same way, he has clearly proven he can alternate between hunting on the front foot (which he does more often) or firing off the back foot (which he did for the most part in the Margarito fight). And yet another dimension within his style is the fact that Roach always seems to provide him with the right punch or the right combination to throw against each specific opponent - and this does differ from fight to fight, which makes Manny much more difficult to defend against than other 'single style' fighters.

Pac is a master at producing the right punch/combo at the opportune moment to swing a fight in his favour decisively. The punches for the 1st and 3rd KD's vs Hatton, the luring Cotto onto the ropes then picking out a shot from an angle to drop him, the bodywork vs Clottey, the in-out attacks vs Oscar, the concentration of rapid combos through the guard vs Margo, etc etc etc - you may think this is all in-ring improv from Pac and you may be right, but that's not the impression I get at all. I think Roach identifies the right punches to throw, and drills them with Manny, and they always make a difference in the fight - and obviously he will do so for Floyd, and I trust in Roach, I believe in him, I think his boxing knowledge is superior to that of Floyd Jr, Floyd Sr, Roger or anyone else in boxing today. He will not send Manny out with no gameplan, it will be the deepest, most multi-layered, and most specific plan they have ever hatched together. I trust in Roach to provide the physical phenomenon with the perfect tactics with regard to punch selection etc, and it's one of the key reasons why I fancy Pac to win.


NB: Manny did get 'picked off' to an extent vs Marquez in '08, but I don't really see the relevance here. Floyd got tattooed by punches by Castillo in '02, but I don't see the relevance here either.

Marquez is a genuinely superb counterpuncher and thrower of combinations (he throws combos more often and better than Floyd does), and Pacquiao wanted to go to war with him, so obviously he was going to get hit. Pac's movement and footwork have improved tremendously since March 2008 (the fight was over two and a half years ago now), and if they fought now Manny would not get hit anywhere near as much.

He got outboxed by Cotto in spells??? Come on man, you're really reaching now. Pac lost fewer rounds vs Cotto than Floyd did vs Ricky ****ing Hatton at welterweight! Cotto had an okay first round without achieving much other than a couple of jabs, and then he got ****ing dominated for the rest of the contest, in a way not even a much bigger, loaded Margarito didn't even manage, nor Shane Mosley.

And yes, he did lose to Morales, though what in God's name that fight has to do with this one is beyond me. FYI, I scored that fight 115-113 Morales, and I scored the 1st JLC-Floyd fight by 115-113 to Castillo... and Pac thrashed Morales much more impressively in the rematches than Floyd managed in the Castillo rematch.

The Pacquiao of 2009-10 is a completely different animal to the raw, rough, one-dimensional windmill of 2003-05. By contrast, Floyd has not evolved that much since Castillo 1 ('02) or the SD with a past-prime Oscar ('07), so we can see that the untouchable one has been touched up before, and by inferior fighters to Pacquiao.

:good

 

GOONERS!!, maybe you should look at video on his rhythm when he was on dancing with the stars instead!:yep

Enjoy!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAXmCCdVZZI&feature=related[/ame]

 

I agree, Floyd's offense comes from his defense, as do most counterpunchers. But here's why I think Floyd will have a hard time against Pac. Unlike against most orthodox fighters. Floyd will have to put his hands up in a guard position instead of that Philley shell--shoulder roll stance that he does. If he puts his right down in a ready counter position, he leaves his head open for Pac's fastest and most lethal punch---the straight left. As he does with ALL of his opponents, Pac will force Floyd to have his guard up as his base stance. Naturally, Floyd will take longer to not only get the timing and distance right, but to also get his shots off. Another thing that Floyd will have to readjust from his normal style is the fact that he is usually a one-shot potshot artist. The problem with throwin one shot at a time is (unless its a perfectly thrown KO punch which Floyd isnt known for) is that it wont back Pac up. Its not the right way to counter a combo puncher like Pac.

Marquez success at counterpunching against Pac stems from the fact he punches in quick crisp combinations. Now doing this in itself is risky in that you leave yourself open to being countered yourself as evidenced by the 4 kd's. But what this does is to offset the other guy's rhythm and gives you a chance to land hard shots of your own on your second or third shots. When Pac found himself reaching with his own combinations (which he seems to have corrected now) , Marquez combos paid dividends for him as he landed meaningful shots of his own and forced Pac to back off and reset every time. However, throwing one shot at a time allows Pac to remain in the pocket and to remain in range which allows him to still dictate exchanges and continue fighting to his strength.

...bottom line is, Floyd will have to fight out of his usual comfort zone, and thus out of his rhythm. You're saying Pac's defense isnt good enough to offset Floyd's countering opportunities, but you're missing the point...its Pac's offense that will offset Floyd's countering opportunities. The full complement of Pac's best attributes (southpaw stance, blazing handspeed, combo punching, ability to explosively close distance with his feet, lateral movement...chin, conditioning and stamina) plus the deficiencies it presents on Floyds regular style will put Floyd in a situations where he has to react instead of think. Once Pac gets you into reacting then your fighting the way Pac wants you to fight.

 

emmanuel's flurries are made up of 1s and 2s. Young May will time it, and then it's over for emmanuel.