Compare and Contrast: Zurdo & Calzaghe

I’m still not happy with the Mitchell stoppage.

It still doesn’t sit right with me.

You can’t say he did a number on Reid either.

I don’t believe that he was soundly beaten, and we should definitely have seen a rematch. According to Reid, he was purposely lowballed for one. I don’t know if that’s true or not.

 

This is actually a fascinating topic because Zurdo is kinda following JCs script.
I guess it depends on what he does towards the end of his career and beats some names.

 

We’ve discussed this before.

The criticisms of Joe is that he didn’t push himself and go to LHW sooner. But he shouldn’t be criticised for the Froch fight, and I’m glad that he didn’t go to Germany to fight Ottke.

 

I disagree about lacy and Kessler...we can say they were overrated now, but at the time Calzaghe fought them, all the experts had them on a pedastle.
Most people were betting on Lacy to R.I.P. Calzaghe in devastating fashion...they both represented Joe's biggest possible threats at that weight, not to mention younger and undefeated...
I'll agree the early part of Joe's career left more to be desired, but I'm not sure how much different it could have gone. Benn and Collins were on the way out. Jones wasn't fighting him (and living in the states, I don't remember any American fans pushing for that fight back in the 90s) He DID fight Eubanks and Reid...and Reid was considered another top prospect in the UK at the time, also undefeated at the time.
I suppose he could have come to US sooner, but I honestly don't recall any interest from American fans back then.
One other win I think is underrated for Calzaghe is the Bika fight. Certainly not an A level fighter, but a rough fighter with bully tactics that gave several top fighters a tough go.
Joe was the first guy to give him a shot.
Either way, I can not convince you, but I will always speak highly of Calzaghe, I think he gets very underrated in the conversation, plus I am a huge fan of his style of fighting and I'm surprised so many people are not

 

Yes we did and I recall establishing that you like the poster had an irrational hatred of Joe. I was getting flashbacks of Herolgee for a moment.
I agree he could have done more but you can level that at nearly all fighters so it becomes pointless. his career is still very good and better than most at his weight.

 

Lacy was a huge favourite with the U.S. fans, as he was aesthetically pleasing and he had an exciting style. That and the fact that even though it was 2006, Joe was still relatively unknown to them. And that’s because he went under their radar. Because as I’ve already noted, he was happy to spend the majority of his career defending a lightly regarded WBO belt, which wasn’t considered one of the main belts until the mid 00’s. Joe was content to fight lots of European level fighters. Not European fighters, but European LEVEL fighters, as in - fighters who were European level and not world level fighters. The truth is: Joe was a great fighter, but the majority of the U.S. fans and media didn’t know it.

Showtime signed Joe in the late 90’s, but he flopped with poor showings against David Starie and Rick Thornberry. He’d also struggled against Robin Reid, and fought guys like Will McIntyre, Omar Sheika and Mario Veit. He only really impressed against Charles Brewer, Richie Woodhall and Byron Mitchell. But Woodhall was pretty much unheard of in the U.S. and he looked vulnerable against Mitchell. So he had no real profile in the U.S. going into the Lacy fight. Otherwise he’d never have been such an underdog.

Jeff Lacy was exciting, but never an A level fighter. He’d beaten nobody of note beforehand, and he didn’t look good in some of his fights.

Again, Kessler also hadn’t beaten anybody noteworthy. Yes, both he and Lacy were undefeated and hyped, but it wasn’t based on anything. I watched the build up to the Kessler fight, and he was hyped up as a Viking Terminator. When the truth is, he’d only beaten B and C level guys and was unproven against anyone elite.


I don’t like Bernard Hopkins, and his racist comments towards Joe were despicable. But I had to laugh when they had the following back and forth:

Hopkins: You’ve beaten nobody!

Joe: What are you talking about? I’ve beaten Lacy, and I’ve just beaten Kessler!

Hopkins: Who’s Kessler?

That made me laugh, as hardly anybody in the U.S. knew of Kessler.


Regarding Bika, he was very tough with a spoiling style. He’d have been a tough nights work for most fighters.

You don’t have to convince me how good Joe was. I lived through the era and watched all of his fights.

Again, he should have moved up to LHW years earlier in order to target better opponents, instead of being content to defend a lightly regarded WBO belt against mostly low level guys.

It’s great that you’re a fan and you think highly of him, but you’d have been left very frustrated had you have watched his WBO reign play out over a decade.

 

There’s nothing irrational in my posts.

Nobody is hating.

 

The TS has hit the jackpot, Loudons entered the fray.. I do agree tho .. he was a world class talent whose competition for a long period didn't really do him justice.. similar somewhat to the GGG story, people weren't exactly queueing up to fight him. Now do u also agree that your hero RJJ was on a potent steroid regime or do you think his ridiculously high T/E levels were simply the result of excessive masturbation? As as for your 'staying at home' remark, its valid but that criticism can be levelled at most fighters around those weights back then .. Jones, DM, Otke, Hopkins etc .. there's a lot of politics and nuances at play there with ALL of them, including Calzaghe.. it's easy to just say well he should have travelled.. its never that simple.. look at the potential DM Jones matchup.. but I'm sure you will reel off your usual slurp slurp gulp monologue of how travelling was beneath his royal highness & it was simply protein shakes & spicy chicken wings that had him pissing hotter than a nuclear reactor

 

Cant I? He was soundly beaten.. he had success in the middle rounds but Calzaghe won the first half comfortably and then the championship rounds too.. I would also add that Reid was probably pissing hotter than a Mexican fighting bull that night too.. as for the Mitchell fight .. come on , stop it

 

It's been a long day and I've already clowned 2x Canelo fanboys and 1 x Wilder nuthugger.
So I'm not going long winded just noting an observation.
I understand what your saying about reputation of the likes of Kessler but your conflating their reputation in the states to how good they were which as you know is a false equivelence. It doesn't change the fact is was a 50/50 for two European based fighters. So clearly they wouldn't have a rep on the US. Kessler still beat Froch and Ward had to heafbutt and foul his way to victory when they fought. So Kessler might not have been top dog but he was clearly 2nd or 3rd in the division. You have an obsession about Joe fighting at home whilst ignoring the fact that most fighters fight in their own backyard like Ward or Ottke but I don't see you posting about them.
I'm not saying any more as I've done enough clowning for today and it get's tedious dealing with people like yourself who have a clear hatred and bias towards someone you've never met. Whilst ignoring the flaws of your own man crush.
Quite frankly it's tragic.

 

Great post.

It made me laugh.

I’m sure that we’ve discussed the PEDS situation before.

I can’t condone anybody taking PEDS. And it disappointed me that Roy took them. There’s no justification. But unfortunately, in the mid 90’s, it was absolutely rife. I believe that almost every fighter took them. They weren’t as sophisticated as they are today, and I believe that most athletes took them so they could train for longer periods, where they could also recover quicker. The gyms I used to go to were rife with them. It was just the culture. Even guys who just weight trained 3-4 times per week were taking them. I could easily have gotten some myself if I’d have been interested. I honestly think that they were more popular back then, than what they currently are. Guys used to do ECA stacks to burn muscle. The changing rooms were full of talk about various products. Again, I don’t condone it, but I’d guess that Roy and almost all of his 90’s opponents had taken something of some sort. I think that boxing was as bad as cycling, if not more so.

Regarding travelling, everyone’s circumstances are different. Roy had the advantage of being American. The American fighters hardly ever needed to travel back then. All of the big fights happened in America. Most of the best fighters in the world were either American, or they were based there. The world’s biggest promoters and TV networks were all based there. Roy was the P4P King who fought on HBO. He didn’t need to go anywhere.

Joe was the one who was under the radar, defending a lightly regarded WBO belt against the Mario Veit’s of the world. Joe is the one who needed to make concessions in order to have gotten the biggest fights for himself.

Joe didn’t travel due to any boxing politics. Joe didn’t travel because he wasn’t ambitious. He didn’t travel, as he was content to fight whoever Frank W and the WBO lined up for him. We know this, as Joe has bragged numerous times of his WBO title defences. And his WBO reign was weak, where it was littered with European level fighters. Also, the WBO had no respect in the late 90’s, and was only considered as a major title in the late 00’s.

Joe and many of his fans like to portray Joe as a victim of circumstances, where he was desperate to get the biggest fights, yet was unable to get them. When the truth is: He was more than content to to just tick by like Eubank had done before him, as evidenced by both his comments and his resume.

 

You’re entitled to your opinion of course, but he didn’t do a number on him, and I’ve never heard anybody else ever claim so. I’ve met some of Joe’s biggest fans who wouldn’t agree with you. I personally think that Joe won the fight, but Reid was never soundly beaten. There was nothing comfortable at all in that victory. I think you need to rewatch it at some point.

Regarding the Byron Mitchell fight, I’d rewatch that too. I’m not saying that Joe wouldn’t have gone on to have won, but that was an awful stoppage. I watched it again about a year ago.

 

Kessler was a good fighter. I was a fan. I’ve just noted that he wasn’t an A level fighter. He also hadn’t beaten anybody noteworthy beforehand which really made a statement. He was hyped up by Sky based upon his stats and how he looked aesthetically.

Again, guys like Andre Ward don’t need to travel. You can say that’s unfair, but it’s the way it is. The Super Six was staged in the U.S. by U.S. backing on a U.S. network. Most of the competition were based there. All of Ward’s fights took place there. Ward could fight the biggest names of his era, such as Kovalev, without going to somewhere like Russia, as Kovalev was based in the U.S. where he also fought on a huge network. Call it hometown advantage. Sure, he deserves criticism for not leaving Oakland etc. But again, he didn’t need to.

Again, Joe was the one who whined to the media about wanting the big fights, whilst he was the guy who was fighting the Veit’s, Salem’s and Pudwell’s of the world in Britain, in the defence of a WBO belt which was only considered a minor title. He was the guy who had to kill himself to make weight, in order to fight in a weak division.

Naz, Benn, Bruno and Hatton etc, all went to the U.S. in order to pursue the biggest fights out there. Joe wasn’t left behind due to politics. He simply didn’t want to go.

There’s nothing tragic about my posts. I’m just telling you like it is. And I like you as a poster. But I’ve told you before, you haven’t got the intelligence required in order to clown me. You can’t do it.

Everything that I’ve said is factual and can be backed up at any point.

If you don’t wish to continue the debate, then that’s fine. But I’m not a hater, and if you want to refute what I’ve said, then by all means come back and try.

 

Warren and Calzaghe should of both (or whoever is to blame) should of been less risk averse for a large portion of Joes career. I remember thinking Warren and Joe were going to just milk that WBO title against subpar (for the most part) competiton until the end of his career.