Compare Rocky Marciano and Jack Dempsey?

I'm going to whitewash this whole darn thread !

 

Naw H, you're off base here.

Most of the folks you cite (without actually naming theses paragons of pugilism) relate to polls from BEFORE Marciano fought and who, in the shadow of the "Great White Hope" era, did not give Louis his just dues. (He was still fighting so how could he be great, eh ?)


Most experts currently have Marciano, Louis and a good many others since, ahead of JD.


You'll find very few 'experts' who place Jack D in top spot, or even close.
Current consensus has either Ali or Louis there, and few now have Dempsey ahead of Marciano.

So true, And as I said, current expert testimony lets you down here.

He fought as a light Heavy while Nat was living and defeated a number of LHW champs. But of course I told you this before, and you came back with "you addressed no points."

And You did not explain the omission of Moore.

Exactly ! And both Charles and Moore were CLEARLY greater than many on his list. The point there is Nat's judgment, or lack thereof.

And for exactly the same reasons, Charles could be ranked either way also. But leaving that aside, there's still Moore, greater than nearly all of Nat's list.

His career overall certainly did. You could make a case for ranking him as the greatest boxer of all time. And niether Marciano nor Schmeling would crack the top twenty there.

But at Heavy weight, both were greater than Sam. One by a bit, the other by a lot. And it was a Heavyweight list that Nat was proffering.

This is undisputed.

In general, this would also be true.

But Given what he wrote, especially in later years, his opinion was simply that. His opinion. And it's not widely shared currently.

 

:rofl

I take it by now, burt, that you've familiarized yourself with UNFORGIVABLE BLACKNESS and thus, grasp the WHITENES reference made by that rascal in Portugal ?

 

Cuchulain.

I am not sure how to approach you because I have never had any communications here. I am speaking in respect. I hope you take it that way. And I know I am late to this convo. All of us enjoy humor. Even risky humor, but if one of us is offended and speaks up about it, he should not be punished for it.

If Seamus' post was offensive to anyone here why defend it? I am sure that you can talk boxing with the best of them but, I don't see the point in encouraging someone who is trolling at the expense of anyone including one of the most respected men on this site, possibly on anysite.

I respect the fact that Burt took the time to hold Seamus accoutable for what he said. Seamus may have been trying to be funny but, it wasn't. I am not sure if you are familiar with Burt. He has been a fan of boxing since the 40's. That means he has been ringside to Robinson, Pep...etc (do I need to go on?) That means when he calls out a poster for trolling on the "Classic" link it needs to be respected. You said you go back to Ali-Foreman or Frazier. That is the 70's. Burt and guys like him ought to be respected and listened to around here. That doesn't mean not debating with them but that does mean going out of way to be respectful and encourage it among the other posters.

Now, I expect you to defend yourself and try and make me seem like I am taking this out of context or something else. I hope that you don't do that and try to help us make this site a little better for the next guys to share his boxing thoughts.

 

I have read the book years ago C, a good bio of Jack Johnson, but you still plug along still defending a "wit" remark that only goes against one race...
These innuendos against "whitey" have been said before and it just
inflames race baiters in the U.S. I don't know where your from C, but I know whereof I speak. Finito, goodbye, sayonara...:hi:

 

Fair enough, J but I draw your attention to my original cooment:

Methinks you a little too sensitive here, burt.

Nobody got insulted and a little levity is always a nice distraction, even during serious discussion.

Well mainly because it was both witty and largely inoffensive. I do not believe that burt 'got it.' and mistook it for some sort of racial slur. Hence my attempts to clarify.

burt is definitely a well-respected figure here and at no point did I attempt to disrespect him. Seamus is also a well respected poster who has been on here more than twice as long as burt (if barely half as long on the planet).

I felt his initial response to Seamus' quip (not directed his way) was a bit over the top. He mistook levity for racism and IMO, over-reacted in a somewhat curmudgeonly manner.

There, we differ and for the reasons I explained. above.

I believe it was both funny and largely inoffensive.

Well there, I can't agree. His years and experience with the sport certainly merit a great measure of respect when he speaks on boxing.

If he speaks on humor or politics or any other topic, he's on common ground with everyone else here and he needs to bear in mind that his take on those matters might be at odds for generational reasons or any number of other reasons. I doubt too many of any race would find Seamus' remark offensve.

Ali-Liston in the early sixties (Not that it matters much).

I generally attempt to be respectful to everyone on first contact and thereafter, if warranted.

As one who has enjoyed the site for about as long as you and burt combined, I too hope that the site remains conducive to sharing opinion and ideas on boxing and boxing history.

 

Well burt, you continue to use 'whitey' when the poster you decry used 'Whiteness' and though both words have the same route, given all the context here, they are simply not equivalent.

We appear to have exhausted the possibilities of dialogue here and I believe it would be best if we simply agree to differ on the meaning and intent of Seamus' remark. Let's just put it behind us and move on.

I am from Ireland, burt. If I had any Nationalistic bias in this thread, which I don't, it would probably favour Dempsey (of Irish extraction) over Marciano (Italian).

I look forward to reading your posts in the future.

Cuchulain

 

C, from Ireland my boy ? By coincidence I am now hearing John MacCormack singing "the Rose of Trali " on a tape recording I have...
Great was he ,but he was not Enrico Caruso... I was very fond of Frank Patterson who I shook hands with about 20 years ago...When he sang in NY with his wife and son...

 

Alas, Frank is no longer with us.

The Count was not quite as great as Caruso, as you point out.

Once again, as with Marciano and Dempsey, I have to cede greater greatness to the Italian. :yep

Regards.

C

 

Oh, Burt, they were BOTH so wonderful!

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This content is protected

 

G, that THEY BOTH were...Too bad we cannot hear the greatest tenor in history with modern recording equipment.... The power of his tenor/baritone voice has never been matched...Caruso was KING.
I also love MacCormack, Gigli, Tito Schipa, Bjorling, Kraus, etc...
Keep singing G...