Compare the progression of AJ and Wilder's boxing abilities.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by SmackDaBum, Apr 2, 2018.


  1. UFC2015

    UFC2015 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Joshua has better names on his resume but Wilder is determined, tough and much more fitter than AJ. He is more than capable of taking AJ into deep waters and putting his lights out
     
  2. Baneofthegame

    Baneofthegame Active Member Full Member

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    That's why it's such a 50/50 fight imo, because if you swapped AJ with Ortiz in that round 7 Wilder would not of survived, likewise I think if it was DW and not Klitschko AJ would of been out of there.
     
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  3. SmackDaBum

    SmackDaBum TKO7 banned Full Member

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    Yeah, let's forget all the other aspects that led up to those situations.
     
  4. Baneofthegame

    Baneofthegame Active Member Full Member

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    It was a quick generalisation as I am at work, but the point still stand still it's a 50/50 fight in my opinion.
     
  5. SmackDaBum

    SmackDaBum TKO7 banned Full Member

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    Wilder has a punchers chance. Like he did against the B-C level opposition in Szpillka, Washington and Ortiz. Those were the 50/50 fights of his career. Against AJ he has an even less of a chance to compete skillwise. I give him 10/90.
     
  6. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Loyal Member Full Member

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    Wilder has made improvements over the years, though it's not as pronounced as with Joshua.

    Wilder has improved his left hook. He used to telegraph it horribly, literally would stick out his left before he threw it, only a blind man could not see it coming. It's now a more fluid shot, doesn't slap with it as much. He's also developed a reflex counter left hook, it doesn't have much power but it will score points and stop you from rushing in.

    He's a more patient and composed fighter. He doesn't get as wild as he used to, waits for the openings to present themselves were before he'd rush it and look sloppy and vulnerable.

    His counter punching is better in general, he's more dangerous off the back foot than he used to be because of it.

    His defence is actually better too. His head and upper body movement it better than it used to be, he's actually far more elusive than given credit for.

    He still has a ton of flaws we all know about, but to say he hasn't developed as a fighter isn't true.

    Joshua in contrasts has made very obvious improvements, the rate of his progress is actually quite stunning.

    His guard is higher and tighter than his early fights. People will say he's stiffer but in reality he simply has improved his basic fundamentals and become more text book.

    He no longer drops the right hand as often or as low as he used to. He still telegraphs the right hands when he throws it though, his right hand drops almost every time it's thrown. He needs to learn to do what Wlad did and throw it from the shoulder and not the chest, when he does that his right hand will be a far more dangerous weapon.

    He has developed an effective pull counter right hand. We saw that vs Martin, he twists his body to evade a punch then counters with the right hand. He has in general become a for better counter puncher and developed a catch counter style which didn't exists when he turned pro.

    Along with that catch and counter style he's learned to parry punches. He was using his forearm to block Wlad's jab, he tries to pick off coming shots and counter. While he will never be elusive with this style, he is sound defensively and also turns that defence into offence very easily.

    He's improved massively as an inside fighter. We saw signs of it during the Wlad fight, we saw it refined even more vs Takam. Joshua is probably the best super heavyweight inside fighter since Bowe. He's compact, can roll and block shots of shoulders and arms and fire back with left hooks and uppercuts with great effect.

    He showed vs Wlad that he knows how to create space on the inside when needed. He used his forearm to create a bridge between him and Wlad that allowed him to work on the inside and not be smothered as Wlad likes to do.

    He's more tactically aware. He rushed head first into Whyte, he's learned not to do that now. He's more composed, patient, will wait for openings.

    His jab has improved a lot. He didn't use it enough before, he now does pivot off it too, though still not enough for me. The Breazele fight showed this. The Parker fight showed for the first time that Joshua can just rely on his jab, that was always an issue for me before. A fighter of his size should be able to rely on his jab to win fights alone and that wasn't the case before Parker, he all to often abandoned it during fights. He can now take rounds off and win rounds with just his jab and more importantly win rounds without having to chase which will be key when facing good movers.

    He showed improved stamina vs Parker and controlled his pace, he needs to stay below 250lbs. In the past he's pushed too hard for KO's and that has left him vulnerable when he gassed. Against Parker he didn't do this, stayed calm, didn't force an opening or a KO and that means he never gassed. That makes Joshua a less vulnerable fighter, more boring, true but harder to beat.

    Joshua for all his improvements has flaws a plenty still. The right hand, he struggles with movement still etc.
     
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  7. BoxingIQ

    BoxingIQ Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Since the Wlad fight, AJ has become a lot tighter and keeps his right hand against his chin. AJ has developed a great jab and has learned how to pace himself. Wilder is still the same fighter to me.
     
  8. bbjc

    bbjc Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Wilder won't be able to do much against Joshua. As soon as a decent fighter that doesn't have a reach disadvantage faces wilder...theyll beat him. Anyone with a decent reach thats fought him so far...have been trash. All he relies on is moving away single shotting using his length advantage. If they do end up closing the gap a bit he fires the straight right. It will work against slow moving guys like Ortiz and arreola but his problems will come when the opponent can either close the gap quickly or a lot easier will be when the opponent....doesn't need to get inside on him.

    Looks to me like their training his reflexes especially with the right hand. Making him hard to beat for the guys with a shorter reach. Wilder will be an easy night for joshua tho...who won't need to get inside on him.
     
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  9. SmackDaBum

    SmackDaBum TKO7 banned Full Member

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    Thank you, at last someone who sees the true limited version of Donkey Wilder that was exposed a long time ago. The one step Wilder manual is probably upside down covered in dust somewhere in the corner of AJ's bathroom.
     
  10. SmackDaBum

    SmackDaBum TKO7 banned Full Member

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    Best post of the week.
     
  11. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Loyal Member Full Member

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    True, Wilder is pretty much a one trick pony, he's all about landing that huge right hand. He looks fine against smaller crude fighters, but give him any decent sized heavy like Washington and he looks very ordinary. Washington has a weak jab and even he was able out box Wilder. Even smaller guys like Ortiz and Szpilka were able to take rounds of Wilder consistently.

    But I think it's wiser if Joshua does close the gap when he can do so safely. Back Wilder up with the jab, move him to the ropes. Then use the jab to make Wilder slip into a bad posture and then come in and tear him up on the inside. Wilder has such long arms, he simply won't be able to create the leverage on the inside to hurt AJ and so that's the safest range for AJ to fight at.

    Also if Wilder does fight Breazeale next it will be interesting to see how he copes with the size of DM. He doesn't have the biggest reach despite his height, but DM is a big guy and could pose Wilder problems if he can't discourage DM from walking him down.
     
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  12. OpinionOfACasual

    OpinionOfACasual Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Joshua has more ways to win a fight imo.

    Wilder's lack of threat from his left is worrying.

    A natural boxer like an Usyk schools him.
     
  13. Holler

    Holler Doesn't appear to be a paid matchroom PR shill Full Member

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    Yes I think he probably could, but the evolution and improvement wrought I guess by McCracken is precisely that he didn't look for it and instead he settled for winning the fight virtually unscathed.

    I've seen a lot of handwringing over the last couple of performances, but I think you can see progress if you look carefully. I thought his footwork was improved for instance?

    I think you need to consider who AJ was as a fighter just a couple of years ago. He freely admitted that he loved a scrap, wanted to engage, wanted to knock his opponents out. That's made for a thrilling rise to prominence, but history suggests that approach doesn't come without a price. I thought that AJ and his team were not going to try and change too much, work with his obvious strengths and see how far they would take him. I also thought that would mean inevitable upsets down the road, engage enough in the heavyweight division and eventually someone is going to get lucky.

    Now I'm wondering if that analysis was flawed. Brighton above has ably pointed the evolution in his skill-set. He's looking more and more like someone in it for the long haul. Which means he needs to be able to win in multiple different ways, including controlling the fight with the jab and accepting that a point victory will sometimes be the route to the win.

    I wonder if McCracken and AJ will be secretly pleased after that fight that the pressure to KO each opponent is gone, along with many of the obvious flaws apparent from AJ's greatest victory so far, his fight with Wlad.

    That's what I thought fascinating from the Parker performance. It wasn't spectacular, it was a poor spectacle, but it was a far more mature and calculating performance than we've seen hitherto. Yes he might've got the KO if he'd gone looking for it, but he may also have got caught by a talented, prime opponent who had never been down. So the smart play was to outbox him using superior reach and he did just that whilst managing his energy reserves such that all the pre fight talk of gassing amounted to so much hot air.

    AJ went through the wringer against Wlad. A few more contests like that and his career as an elite level fighter would've been at an end, albeit via a thrilling journey along the way. A generation of his opponents, including Parker have been viewing that flawed performance and taking note of the weaknesses revealed. On Saturday AJ revealed that no one has paid more attention to that performance than him and his trainer. He's moving towards a more sustainable model of performance, showing that he's capable of resisting his natural urge to mix it with his opponents when to do so may be too risky.
     
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  14. KingFury64

    KingFury64 Active Member banned Full Member

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    Wilder`s got boxing skills?!!
     
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  15. SmackDaBum

    SmackDaBum TKO7 banned Full Member

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    Also AJ wanted to save his energy to late rounds for a potential desperate all out Parker assault. AJ might of thought that Parker was trying to test his stamina and drive up the tempo as the fight went on. But the pushing of tempo or final assault never came.