Comparing Calzaghe and Hopkins

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by trampie, Jan 12, 2011.


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  1. trampie

    trampie Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Hopkins lost to Taylor twice, Hopkins lost to a green Roy Jones having his first title fight, he also had a draw, losing is no good I could do that, not only are you looking at American boxers featured in an American magazine, you are also crediting losses and draws as positives.
    Before their championship run Calzaghe's victims had a better win/loss record than Hopkins victims.
    Look at the quality at the top end of the resume of both boxers, in Calzaghe's case it is Kessler, Lacy, Mitchell, Eubank, Brewer and Reid in Hopkins case its a couple of welterweights in a nearly retired Trinidad and DLH who was as much a lightweight as a welterweight fighting a middleweight in Hopkins, followed by Joppy, Glen Johnson having his first title fight and then the bulk of these American boxers that make the American magazine ring's list, Allen who Bhops fought three times and Echols who Bhop fought twice.

    The quality of boxers at the top end of each boxers resume at their career weight is better in Calzaghe's case.

    The quality of boxers in the middle of each boxers resume is better in Hopkins case.

    The quality at the bottom end of each boxers resume is better in Calzaghe's case as they have a better win/loss ratio.

    But lets be fair, for ATG boxers the quality of second tier and third tier boxers is neither here nor there as ATG boxers should always beat these standard boxers, although Hopkins did lose to a nobody on his debut.

    What matters is how they faired against top level boxers, and Calzaghe beat Hopkins, beat Kessler, beat Lacy, beat Mitchell and beat Eubank. Hopkins beat Tarver, beat Pavlik, beat DLH {a lightweight/welterweight}, beat Trinidad {a welterweight} and beat Joppy.

    Thats their wins, of course Hopkins has losses as well like Taylor twice.

    So Hopkins resume is not better than Calzaghe as losses should not count and second and third tier boxers dont tell us much.
     
    trampie, Jan 12, 2011
    trampie, Jan 12, 2011
    #61
  2. horst

    horst Guest

    That's just such a weak argument though. Other than Marciano, Calzaghe, Ricardo Lopez and a few others, no world title holders have retired undefeated, but that doesn't mean those three are necessarily better than fighters who lost fights, not at all. Were any of those three greater than Roberto Duran or Sugar Ray Robinson or Pernell Whitaker? Obviously not.

    It's an argument almost as weak as your rather convenient belief in the importance of 'h2h' which comes up whenever you are discussing Calzaghe and Hopkins. Do you rank Buster Douglas over Mike Tyson as well then?

    Your arguments are all coloured by bias, they do not stand up at all. Even you must see this.

    Just say "I like Joe Calzaghe more than I like Bernard Hopkins because Joe comes from the same country as me and Bernard doesn't", and we will all accept that, but do not continue this shabby pretence at objective boxing assessment. :-(
     
    horst, Jan 12, 2011
    horst, Jan 12, 2011
    #62
  3. HoldMyBeer

    HoldMyBeer Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    like i said to you before - you're wearing your heart on your sleeve and seeing what you want to see...probably because you've supported him and grown up with him and look up to him - nothing more.

    you said here "let's be fair", and then you went on to say, "what matters is how they faired against top level boxers".

    and now i'm going to say it again for all the dumb ****s who don't listen, or don't want to...

    what matters...is who they fought and when.

    EDIT : nothing wrong with using your flag as your avatar, but you better be able to post objectively too or you're going to crash and burn here
     
    HoldMyBeer, Jan 12, 2011
    HoldMyBeer, Jan 12, 2011
    #63
  4. Lance_Uppercut

    Lance_Uppercut ESKIMO Full Member

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    ****in A...are all Calzaghe fans this full of themselves? I swear, some of you would give yourself a blowjob if it wasn't for what you call a spine...
     
    Lance_Uppercut, Jan 12, 2011
    Lance_Uppercut, Jan 12, 2011
    #64
  5. toffeejack

    toffeejack Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Can't be bothered to debate this again but their resumes are very similar.
     
    toffeejack, Jan 12, 2011
    toffeejack, Jan 12, 2011
    #65
  6. HoldMyBeer

    HoldMyBeer Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    yes they are but that isn't what seperates them, and why one will be remembered as one of the best fighters of his era and why the other won't.
     
    HoldMyBeer, Jan 12, 2011
    HoldMyBeer, Jan 12, 2011
    #66
  7. trampie

    trampie Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I cant help it that a nearly retired Calzaghe beat a near peak Hopkins in the USA.

    I cant help it that Calzaghe beat prime multiple unbeaten champions in their career weight class in Kessler and Lacy.
     
    trampie, Jan 12, 2011
    trampie, Jan 12, 2011
    #67
  8. HoldMyBeer

    HoldMyBeer Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    just in the same way you can't post objectively because you don't really believe in what you're saying.

    i've baited you in 3-4 posts today and you haven't bitten once to any of my posts directly.

    sorry champ, but you're just an armchair boxing fan who flies the flag out of habit.
     
    HoldMyBeer, Jan 12, 2011
    HoldMyBeer, Jan 12, 2011
    #68
  9. horst

    horst Guest

    Translation:

    I like Joe Calzaghe much more than I like Bernard Hopkins because Joe is from the same place as me and Bernard isn't.
     
    horst, Jan 12, 2011
    horst, Jan 12, 2011
    #69
  10. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Calzaghe fought only bums and old men. :hi:
     
    bodhi, Jan 12, 2011
    bodhi, Jan 12, 2011
    #70
  11. guga

    guga New Member Full Member

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    Jan 10, 2011
    that would explain jeff lacy's ranking but besides that your theory doesn't hold an ounce of water. if you look at the super middle rankings almost all the guys on it are non americans. if your crackpot theory were true why weren't tocker pudwill or will mcintyre in the top 10?
     
    guga, Jan 12, 2011
    guga, Jan 12, 2011
    #71
  12. trampie

    trampie Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Oct 18, 2008
    Its not a theory they were caught doing it by journalists, it was known as the ring scandal, people lost their job in boxing, resignations the lot.

    Fighters' records listed in Ring were doctored, phantom bouts were created and boxers credited with wins for fights that never took place.
     
    trampie, Jan 12, 2011
    trampie, Jan 12, 2011
    #72
  13. horst

    horst Guest

    Is that why Jeff Lacy was apparently so highly regarded by the US media around 05-06 perhaps? :lol:
     
    horst, Jan 12, 2011
    horst, Jan 12, 2011
    #73
  14. swayz

    swayz Guest


    yes...the fact that the ring p4p no.1 & 2 are both based in america and are the biggest ppv attractions in the us is definitive proof that the ring rankings are not used to hype fights in the us. :patsch
     
    swayz, Jan 12, 2011
    swayz, Jan 12, 2011
    #74
  15. the cobra

    the cobra Awesomeizationism! Full Member

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    You really need to get over this.
     
    the cobra, Jan 12, 2011
    the cobra, Jan 12, 2011
    #75
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