Comparing Roy jones Jr at LHW to Artur beterbiev is crazy talk

Alright Loudon has raised some valid points forcing me to change my opinion from a Beterbiev KO4 Roy Jones Jr, to a Beterbiev KO6 Roy Jones Jr.

 

What sort of logic is this?

In a prime for prime fight, Artur wouldn’t have been fighting that specific version would he?

And if a B level, 5’9 former MW put Roy to sleep like that, then why didn’t Ruiz just blast him out of the way?

We know the answer.

 

I think that most fans see the win against Bivol as being his best win.

 

Prime RJJ was something to behold.....Prime it would be Roy for Me.!!

 

It would have been a very intriguing and dangerous fight for both guys.

For me, Bivol has shown the type of game plan that Roy would have utilised.

I can acknowledge that Artur is past his best, but I personally believe that a Bivol fight would always have played out in a similar fashion, just based upon how they match up stylistically.


Artur isn’t huge, with a huge reach.

He hasn’t got one punch monster knockout power.

He’s not exceptionally fast.

He’s not a relentless volume puncher.

He’s not a southpaw.

He’s not some mythical monster that is unbeatable.


Again, of course he’d have been very dangerous to Roy, with his skills, strength and power.

But Roy’s unique speed and unorthodox style could have beaten him to the punch and kept him on the outside for a points win.


I don’t know what people have seen for them to be so certain that he’d have taken Roy out with ease.

At the end of the day, as great as he is, the guy has only fought 10 world level opponents, with only Bivol being really elite, who he barely beat.

Apart from Bivol of Gvod, all of his other opponents have been B-C level guys.

 

A Beterbiev and Roy Jones Jr LHW comparison is valid.

Beterbiev accomplished in the LHW division what Roy couldn't.

1. Undisputed winning all available world titles.
2. Lineal Light Heavyweight champion.
3. Never got KTFO'd
4. Never lost.

Among other things. The depth of their top 10 wins is a legitimate debate.

For Roy we got:-

1. Virgil Hill
2. Antonio Tarver (Close fight)
3. Reggie Johnson
4. Clinton Woods
5. Mike McCallum (40 year old)
6. Lou Del Valle
7. Julio Cesar Gonzalez
8. Montell Griffin
9. Felix Trinidad (Shot/bloated)
10. Jeff Lacy (Shot)

For Beterbiev we have:-

1. Gvodzyk
2. Bivol (Close fight)
3. Callum Smith
4. Joe Smith Jr
5. Tavoris Cloud
6. Gabriel Campillo
7. Callum Johnson
8. Marcus Browne
9. Anthony Yarde
10. Enrico Koeling

Now these top 10s were done in a rough manner I can understand if someone disagrees with them or the placing of each win. My point here is besides that. Beterbiev LHW resume is comparable and in my opinion its even deeper than Roys. Especially considering how dominant Beterbiev was while beating up his opponents in comparison to Roy Jones Jr.

Roy would pot shot his way to a decision using his superior athleticism while Beterbiev would try finish his opponent. Beterbiev showed mor

If we are talking overall career, then you have a point. But for you to say Beterbiev's LHW reign cannot be compared to Roys is just foolishness. I just compared them and Beterbiev actually looks better.

 

First of all, Roy became the undisputed LHW champion, back when the WBO belt wasn’t needed in order for a fighter to become an undisputed champion in any division.

So he was officially an undisputed champion.

The WBO didn’t start getting acknowledged until the mid to late 00’s.


Yes, EVERYBODY wanted the Dariusz fight, who was stripped of his 2 titles.

However, like I’ve said all throughout the thread, his team literally wouldn’t even ever meet for face to face negotiations.

So Roy simply never had the opportunity to do what Artur has done.


Yes, we all know that Artur hasn’t lost or being stopped etc.

But LHW was Roy’s THIRD weight class, where he only lost at 35, after he’d had 50 pro fights.


As of yet, Artur hasn’t even had half of the pro fights that Roy had.

Artur also didn’t move up to HW, and then burn muscle in order to take on a stylistic threat like Tarver presented.


So they took very different career paths.


Now I wouldn’t say that Artur’s resume is deeper, or that his wins were more impressive overall.

I also wouldn’t include guys like Lacy or Tito there.

Because those fights meant absolutely nothing, where they were all shot at that point.


So you need to substitute guys like Lacy and Tito, for guys like Hall and Harding.


Roy’s best LHW wins were against: (not in any order)

Hill
McCallum
Griffin
Woods
Gonzalez
Tarver
Hall
Harmon
Del Valle
Reggie


Now look at the manner of victory etc:


Roy crushed Montell Griffin in a single round, with a lead, left uppercut.

That was absolutely spectacular, against a very solid guy. A guy who’d had 2 very close fights against Toney.


Roy crushed Hill with a 4th round body shot.

Roy was the only ever guy to destroy Hill in that manner, in a career which spanned nearly 60 fights.

And Hill went onto win a belt at CW a few years later.


Roy is the only guy who ever toyed with Reggie Johnson.


Roy destroyed Richard Hall by giving him an awful beating. And Hall gave Dariusz two very hard fights.


Roy played with Gonzalez, who ended Dariusz’ long reign.


Roy toyed with a durable Woods, who split 3 fights with Glen Johnson.


Roy beat Eric Harding, who’d beaten Tarver.


Roy beat Tarver, after burning muscle in just a few months, after he’d dropped back from HW.

That fight was his hardest fight, due to weight loss and the stylistic match up.

And it made history, as Roy had reclaimed the LHW titles, after gaining a version of the HW title.

So if the official accolades impress you, then that was very impressive, especially under those circumstances.


So, no.

I don’t see how Artur’s 10 world level fighters were of better overall quality.

I also don’t see how his wins were more impressive.


Bivol is his greatest win. His greatest official win. Yet I and many others had Bivol clearly winning.


Now how many wins, or what win, does Artur have that were as impressive as Roy beating Tarver, under those specific circumstances?


What wins does he have, that were as great as easily destroying Griffin and Hill?


What win does he have, where he absolutely toyed with a guy as talented/skilful as Reggie Johnson?


He doesn’t have those wins.


Also, let me be crystal clear:

Artur is a great fighter, who absolutely compares with Roy.


You have taken my initial comment from a post between me and Forza, who is either a troll or an idiot.

So I was just playing him at his own silly game.

I wasn’t being serious, speaking literally.


Again, Artur is a fine fighter. But if you read his opening post, it is of course absolutely laughable for him to have typed what he did. Especially considering that Artur has mostly fought a similar level of opposition, both in terms of ability and quantity, after being in the division for 11 years.


Good debate.

 

Source?

 

For which part?

All of this has been discussed on here numerous times over the years.

I’ve provided numerous links from various sources.

Statements from various HBO execs etc.

People love to claim that HBO couldn’t wait to get rid of him, as they were somehow conned by him etc.

Yet the truth is, although there were times when they were frustrated, he featured on their network for around 16 years.

From 1992-2008.

They gave him multiple contracts.

He fought on the network well over 20 times.

Lou DiBella, Ross Greenberg, Mark Taffet, Seth Abraham and Kerry Davis, all backed him at various parts of his career.

The only real mistake they made, was having contracts which including those low level mandatories.

But those fights couldn’t be helped. And especially when they’d wanted him to become the undisputed champion after beating Reggie Johnson. He then had mandatory obligations from all three of the main organisations.

 

I love when London schools fools on here

 

Roy's win over Tarver is debatable. The crowd certainly made it clear they thought Tarver won with their boo'ing of the result. Yes specific circumstances such as the drop down from Heavyweight, burning muscle did result in a lackluster performance from Roy, but specific circumstances can be mentioned for Beterbiev also. Let us compare the following victories:-

Roy MD12 Tarver
Versus
Beterbiev MD12 Bivol

1. Beterbiev was damn near 40 years old when he fought Bivol. Me and you have had a few skirmishes on these forums back when it used to be called Eastside boxing forum, ESB. You displayed the wisdom of a damn near 40 year old back then, so you and me probably understand Beterbievs aging right now. A 40 year old against a prime aged 32/33 year old Bivol and Beterbiev had Bivol retreating in the championship rounds is impressive. That is a valid specific circumstance.

2. Beterbiev came back from a knee surgery that many don't recover from. We seen Sergio Martinez knee injury being taken advantage of by Miguel Cotto in the past. Thats one of many examples.

3. Beterbiev was out of the ring almost a year and had to deal with the covid inactivity. Ring rust. This with the knee injury explains why Beterbiev wasn't looking his usual self yet still put in a solid performance against Bivol. Another reason why Beterbiev couldn't get his usual KO victory:-

4. Bivol is a superior boxer. Beterbiev even said in the post interview, Bivol maybe better boxer than me. Bivol is a better boxer than Tarver. If a 40 year old former Middleweight in Bernard Hopkins was able to box Tarver's head off I would expect Bivol to do a more definitive schooling. Yet Beterbiev had Bivol wilting in the championship rounds.

5. Beterbiev win over Bivol is clearer win than Roy's win over Tarver. Beterbiev never looked bothered or wasn't really pushed back by his opponent as Tarver had Roy.

6. You can mention Roy's longer career and him having more fights, but let's not forget Beterbiev's long amateur career. With what around 300 bouts. Where he fought at light heavyweight aswell as 90 kilo. In a tough Soviet circuit.

7. Beterbiev started pro boxing late.

Now we got these wins over Griffin, Hill, and Reggie Johnson.

Beterbiev cracked a chin in Joe Smith Jr that had never been cracked as an amateur or pro. With ease. Unifying the division.

A two round destruction of Tavoris Cloud in his 6th pro fight.

Demolished Campillo in 4 rounds in his 8th pro fight.

Beterbiev has been dominating light heavyweight champs his entire pro career. And made them look easy.

Regardless, I accept Roy was undisputed champion since the WBO wasn't venerated those times. However he never became lineal champ while a lineal champ existed, this will lead to dispute among us scholars.

 

Sorta pathetic to claim that Roy lost the first fight vs Tarver.

 

It was a very close fight. Either way it doesn't matter because Tarver shattered that Glass Jaw in the rematch and mind ****ed Roy so bad that he claimed he "didn't try to win" in the third fight because of his Daddy

Tarver ended Glass Jaw Roy's career in brutal and embarrassing fashion. Nobody showed any respect to Roy and he started getting KOed over and over all across the globe.

 

I didn’t mention Tarver.

I’m questioning your logic.


You guys keep asking stupid questions, such as:

“If a B level Glen Johnson knocked him out with ease, then what would Artur have done?”

Yet that question would only be logical, if we were looking at Artur fighting that specific post HW version of Roy.

Otherwise, it has no relevance.


What I initially asked, was:

“If Glen Johnson easily beat Roy like that, then why didn’t Ruiz also easily beat him?”

Ruiz hits harder than Johnson.

But the answer to the question is obvious:

They were obviously very different versions of Roy.


Regarding Tarver, if you think that he hit harder than Ruiz, then why do you say that Roy had a glass jaw?

I would think that that same shot would have knocked out most LHW’s.

It’s even possible that Tarver could have knocked out Beterbiev with that same shot, if he could have landed it as perfectly.