Comparing Roy jones Jr at LHW to Artur beterbiev is crazy talk

Roy should 100% have fought Roch.

And he should have been made to take that fight by the WBC.

What they did was absolutely outrageous.


Regarding Maske, he’d retired with a loss against Hill, just as Roy was making his debut in the division.

 

The 193 pounds was the official weight, which was of course reported by all of the news outlets at the time.

However, if you were around at the time, and/or you’d watched the documentary leading up to the fight, titled “The Sweet Science” you’ll remember that the weight was heavily debated.

Before the official weigh-in, Roy’s manager, Alton Merkerson, had gotten into an altercation with Ruiz’ manager, Norman Stone. Merkerson hit him with a right hand after they’d traded words.

Roy was then weighed.

Marc Ratner weighed him.

Mackie Shilstone, the man who’d helped Roy to add the weight for Ruiz, then challenged Rainer’s scales. He said that they’d not calibrated properly.

Then the following day, Ratner weighed Roy again, where he weighed 199 pounds.

Ratner and Mackie then joked that a mistake had been made the first time around.

Again, it’s on the documentary.

Thomas Hauser was then made aware of this, where he reported the incident.

Hauser detailed what had happened, and said that Roy weighed in again at 199 pounds, which meant that he’d have been around 196 pounds, minus 3 pounds for his clothing.

Roy never added 20 pounds of muscle.

It was around 10 pounds of muscle which was added, then shredded.

 

Surely anybody can see the very noticeable difference between his physique for Ruiz and Tarver.

He’s very noticeably bigger against Ruiz.

 

HBO had a list of approved opponents, and fighters they really wanted him to face.

The main guys they wanted were: Dariusz, Hopkins II and Tito. (if he could have moved up higher than MW, had he have beaten Hopkins in King’s tournament)

They were also interested in Tarver, Jirov and any HW.

They actually didn’t want a Collins fight in the late 90’s.

 

This is all nonsense what we’ve discussed numerous times.


He fought his low level mandatories like everybody did.

And he had mandatory obligations from all three of the main org’s, after he’d beaten Reggie.


His keep busy fights weren’t bad fights either.

Gonzalez and Harmon were okay fighters, and HBO wanted Telesco, after he’d kept running his mouth off.


The big 2 what the network and everybody else wanted, were Dariusz and Hopkins.


Again, Universum would not meet. Not ever. No official face to face meetings ever happened for a Dariusz fight. All of their advances were ignored. Because of this, HBO then sent over a fax, (this was in 2001) with the offer of Dariusz being showcased in front of a live U.S. TV audience along with Roy, in what HBO referred to as being a ‘Double Header’

Yet that was instantly turned down flat. No enquiries were made on the date, the purse or the proposed opponent/opponents.

Also, no official enquiries were made for Roy to go to Germany, for Dariusz to go to the U.S. or even for a proposed fight somewhere neutral.

They weren’t interested.


Regarding Hopkins, again, after their famous argument live on HBO, Hopkins was met privately, where he was offered $6m, as well as an extra fight on the network.

And that was turned down flat. No compromise. Hopkins demanded $10m, or no fight for a 168 pound catch-weight.


Those were the big 2 fights of the day, which really could have sealed his legacy.

Over the years, I have posted numerous links with first hand statements from the guys at HBO, most notably Kerry Davis and Mark Taffet.


This wasn’t Roy claiming this.

This was the top execs at HBO.

Mark Taffet met Hopkins one to one, the week after his fight against Carl Daniels. And he says that Hopkins wasn’t interested, as he was demanding $10m, when the majority of his purses had been around $1.2m.


Those guys simply did not want to fight Roy in 2001 and 2002.

Those are the facts.

 

What skill?

Technique, timing, balance, leverage and accuracy are all skills, you ignoramus.


Are you for real?


Trolling for over a decade now.


Have a word with yourself.

 

Bivol and Beterbiev are both excellent fighters.

So I don’t agree that many of Roy’s opponents would have beaten them both with ease.

 

Alright Loudon has raised some valid points forcing me to change my opinion from a Beterbiev KO4 Roy Jones Jr, to a Beterbiev KO6 Roy Jones Jr.

 

What sort of logic is this?

In a prime for prime fight, Artur wouldn’t have been fighting that specific version would he?

And if a B level, 5’9 former MW put Roy to sleep like that, then why didn’t Ruiz just blast him out of the way?

We know the answer.

 

I think that most fans see the win against Bivol as being his best win.

 

Prime RJJ was something to behold.....Prime it would be Roy for Me.!!

 

It would have been a very intriguing and dangerous fight for both guys.

For me, Bivol has shown the type of game plan that Roy would have utilised.

I can acknowledge that Artur is past his best, but I personally believe that a Bivol fight would always have played out in a similar fashion, just based upon how they match up stylistically.


Artur isn’t huge, with a huge reach.

He hasn’t got one punch monster knockout power.

He’s not exceptionally fast.

He’s not a relentless volume puncher.

He’s not a southpaw.

He’s not some mythical monster that is unbeatable.


Again, of course he’d have been very dangerous to Roy, with his skills, strength and power.

But Roy’s unique speed and unorthodox style could have beaten him to the punch and kept him on the outside for a points win.


I don’t know what people have seen for them to be so certain that he’d have taken Roy out with ease.

At the end of the day, as great as he is, the guy has only fought 10 world level opponents, with only Bivol being really elite, who he barely beat.

Apart from Bivol of Gvod, all of his other opponents have been B-C level guys.

 

A Beterbiev and Roy Jones Jr LHW comparison is valid.

Beterbiev accomplished in the LHW division what Roy couldn't.

1. Undisputed winning all available world titles.
2. Lineal Light Heavyweight champion.
3. Never got KTFO'd
4. Never lost.

Among other things. The depth of their top 10 wins is a legitimate debate.

For Roy we got:-

1. Virgil Hill
2. Antonio Tarver (Close fight)
3. Reggie Johnson
4. Clinton Woods
5. Mike McCallum (40 year old)
6. Lou Del Valle
7. Julio Cesar Gonzalez
8. Montell Griffin
9. Felix Trinidad (Shot/bloated)
10. Jeff Lacy (Shot)

For Beterbiev we have:-

1. Gvodzyk
2. Bivol (Close fight)
3. Callum Smith
4. Joe Smith Jr
5. Tavoris Cloud
6. Gabriel Campillo
7. Callum Johnson
8. Marcus Browne
9. Anthony Yarde
10. Enrico Koeling

Now these top 10s were done in a rough manner I can understand if someone disagrees with them or the placing of each win. My point here is besides that. Beterbiev LHW resume is comparable and in my opinion its even deeper than Roys. Especially considering how dominant Beterbiev was while beating up his opponents in comparison to Roy Jones Jr.

Roy would pot shot his way to a decision using his superior athleticism while Beterbiev would try finish his opponent. Beterbiev showed mor

If we are talking overall career, then you have a point. But for you to say Beterbiev's LHW reign cannot be compared to Roys is just foolishness. I just compared them and Beterbiev actually looks better.

 

First of all, Roy became the undisputed LHW champion, back when the WBO belt wasn’t needed in order for a fighter to become an undisputed champion in any division.

So he was officially an undisputed champion.

The WBO didn’t start getting acknowledged until the mid to late 00’s.


Yes, EVERYBODY wanted the Dariusz fight, who was stripped of his 2 titles.

However, like I’ve said all throughout the thread, his team literally wouldn’t even ever meet for face to face negotiations.

So Roy simply never had the opportunity to do what Artur has done.


Yes, we all know that Artur hasn’t lost or being stopped etc.

But LHW was Roy’s THIRD weight class, where he only lost at 35, after he’d had 50 pro fights.


As of yet, Artur hasn’t even had half of the pro fights that Roy had.

Artur also didn’t move up to HW, and then burn muscle in order to take on a stylistic threat like Tarver presented.


So they took very different career paths.


Now I wouldn’t say that Artur’s resume is deeper, or that his wins were more impressive overall.

I also wouldn’t include guys like Lacy or Tito there.

Because those fights meant absolutely nothing, where they were all shot at that point.


So you need to substitute guys like Lacy and Tito, for guys like Hall and Harding.


Roy’s best LHW wins were against: (not in any order)

Hill
McCallum
Griffin
Woods
Gonzalez
Tarver
Hall
Harmon
Del Valle
Reggie


Now look at the manner of victory etc:


Roy crushed Montell Griffin in a single round, with a lead, left uppercut.

That was absolutely spectacular, against a very solid guy. A guy who’d had 2 very close fights against Toney.


Roy crushed Hill with a 4th round body shot.

Roy was the only ever guy to destroy Hill in that manner, in a career which spanned nearly 60 fights.

And Hill went onto win a belt at CW a few years later.


Roy is the only guy who ever toyed with Reggie Johnson.


Roy destroyed Richard Hall by giving him an awful beating. And Hall gave Dariusz two very hard fights.


Roy played with Gonzalez, who ended Dariusz’ long reign.


Roy toyed with a durable Woods, who split 3 fights with Glen Johnson.


Roy beat Eric Harding, who’d beaten Tarver.


Roy beat Tarver, after burning muscle in just a few months, after he’d dropped back from HW.

That fight was his hardest fight, due to weight loss and the stylistic match up.

And it made history, as Roy had reclaimed the LHW titles, after gaining a version of the HW title.

So if the official accolades impress you, then that was very impressive, especially under those circumstances.


So, no.

I don’t see how Artur’s 10 world level fighters were of better overall quality.

I also don’t see how his wins were more impressive.


Bivol is his greatest win. His greatest official win. Yet I and many others had Bivol clearly winning.


Now how many wins, or what win, does Artur have that were as impressive as Roy beating Tarver, under those specific circumstances?


What wins does he have, that were as great as easily destroying Griffin and Hill?


What win does he have, where he absolutely toyed with a guy as talented/skilful as Reggie Johnson?


He doesn’t have those wins.


Also, let me be crystal clear:

Artur is a great fighter, who absolutely compares with Roy.


You have taken my initial comment from a post between me and Forza, who is either a troll or an idiot.

So I was just playing him at his own silly game.

I wasn’t being serious, speaking literally.


Again, Artur is a fine fighter. But if you read his opening post, it is of course absolutely laughable for him to have typed what he did. Especially considering that Artur has mostly fought a similar level of opposition, both in terms of ability and quantity, after being in the division for 11 years.


Good debate.

 

Source?