Comparing Roy jones Jr at LHW to Artur beterbiev is crazy talk

Beterbiev is not elite in either of those. All this talk about what Beterbiev would do to Roy with his offense but what about what Roy would do to that punching bag? He wouldn't be able to miss Beterbiev, who has knocked done twice by C grade fighters in his prime.

 

realsoulja,

IMHO, the win over Tarver was much clearer than Artur’s win over Bivol.

If you watch the Tarver fight, Buddy McGirt, who trained Tarver for the fight, kept questioning why Tarver wasn’t carrying out his instructions. And Tarver just sat there looking completely despondent. He was confident after the fight, where threw his arms around at what he perceived to be the wrong decision. But the truth is, he couldn’t do what McGirt was asking of him. And that version of Roy was there for the taking, where he was running on fumes in the last 3 rounds.

Absolutely. Even though I feel as though Bivol won a close fight, for Artur to perform like that at his age, after having come back from his injury and inactivity, that was amazing.

That’s right. Artur came back very strong, whereas you could see that Sergio was struggling in his fights.

Again, it was incredibly impressive. I have to disagree with you on him not looking his normal self though. Because I thought that he looked great. Very sharp. I just think that Bivol and his style is the reason why he didn’t look his normal self, where he didn’t get his normal knockout.

I would agree. Although I was looking from the POV of Roy being drained, and it being a very tough stylistic match up for him, due to Tarver being a very good, rangy southpaw.

Regarding Hopkins vs Tarver, Hopkins was obviously an ATG, and Tarver swears that he was devoid of energy after dropping the weight from the Rocky movie.

He actually said that he thought that he may have been poisoned.

The truth is: After his famous question to Roy before their second fight, he couldn’t say that it was due to the loss of muscle. His ego wouldn’t let him say that, as he’d have had to have apologised to Roy.

Tarver says that he felt great in camp, but on the night of the fight, he felt completely flat. He had no energy at all.

Now I’ve always been in two minds about this. It could have been his ego talking, after an embarrassing loss to Hopkins. But at the same time, it could have been legit. (the issues with burning muscle, not him having being poisoned) And I say that, due to it also happening to Roy, Chris Byrd and Chad Dawson, where they all experienced the exact same issues.

Regarding Bivol vs Tarver, we don’t know how that fight would have played out. Bivol is the better P4P fighter, but I believe that Tarver would have given him some stylistic issues.

To my knowledge, Bivol has only fought one top level southpaw, in Zurdo.

I don’t agree at all.

I’d say that Bivol’s win over Artur was clearer. But then obviously Artur won officially.

I’m really looking forward to the rematch.

I believe that that number has been disputed. But yes, I recognise the wear and tear. But we can’t just write off 50 wins, where most of them were at world level.

He did. As did Loma. And it’s interesting to me, pondering on how they’d both be right now, had they have turned pro years earlier.

Artur’s wins over Smith, Cloud and Campillo were very impressive. 100%

But they weren’t as impressive as Roy’s victories.

Again, he knocked out Griffin with a lead uppercut in the first round.

He decimated Hill in just 4 rounds, where he was the only guy to ever do it.

Again, he fought Reggie like Reggie was a nobody, despite Reggie being a very skilful southpaw who was in form.

So Artur hasn’t got wins that are as impressive.

It will always be debated. And it’s just a crying shame that Roy and Dariusz never fought each other.

 

But he didn’t take risks, right?

Tarver gave him his hardest ever fight.

Yet Roy immediately rematched him.

Then after getting knocked out, he then immediately signed to fight Johnson.

And then after getting knocked out again, he then fought Tarver again, after a year out and no tune up.

So: After back to back knockouts, he rematched the guy who’d knocked him out in 2 rounds.

But he didn’t take risks, right??

Clown.

 

Ha!

Well of course you were always going to type this.

I wouldn’t have expected anything less.


On a serious note, Artur is a great fighter. And I can absolutely envisage a realistic scenario where he could have beaten Roy.

But then I can also envisage a scenario where Roy would have had a very realistic chance of having beating Artur.

And it would be absolutely nonsensical to have written Roy off completely.


Bivol has just shown us the game plan that Roy would have utilised.

Bivol’s speed and style caused Artur huge issues. And it’s not because Artur is old and washed up, as we saw that he looked in great form. It’s because his style had presented him with something that he’d not seen before in a pro fight.

Now I don’t have to tell you, that Roy was faster than Bivol, with more power, better reflexes and where he possessed a bigger repertoire of shots in his arsenal.


Now I’m sure that you’ll come back saying that this wasn’t Artur in his prime.

Well there is zero evidence to support an opinion that even a prime version of Artur would easily have beaten Bivol. And if we were to focus on what you perceive to have been a prime version of Artur, then we can see that he was just as easy to hit as he currently is, where we saw him get dropped by two B level fighters, who were nowhere near Roy’s level.

 

As predicted, you’ll solely focus on one guy, but completely ignore the circumstances of the other.


What spin?


You’re writing off 50 pro fights and camps, most at world level, where you’re instead highlighting 3 round amateur fights.


Yes, Artur absolutely has wear and tear.

But then so did Roy.


You’re talking about a guy who trained under Roy Snr, since he was a young kid.

You’re talking about a guy who was literally hit with a lead pipe, and made to spar older kids with a hand tied behind his back.

You’re talking about a kid who was made to run 10 miles per day.


Roy had plenty of wear and tear.

He was sparring Ray Leonard, Lindel Holmes and Reggie Johnson when he was young.

He had over 130 amateur fights. And he had wars in some of them, like against Gerald McClellan.


He then trained every day, even went not in a camp.

He ran miles, just ticking over.

Then he had all of those camps and fights, where each one was at least 7-8 weeks, before then fighting mostly world level opposition.


So he too trained like a maniac back then.

He famously went running in Vegas after he’d beaten Toney.

He also had numerous hand injuries, and had to have knee surgery towards the end of his career.


So both fighters had plenty of wear and tear.

We also have no idea how Artur would have looked at 35 plus, had he have had less amateur fights, as well as 50 pro fights, across numerous divisions.

Also, regarding Artur’s number of amateur fights, I’ve seen a few people/publications have questioned that. But either way, they both had wear and tear after training almost on a daily basis since they were young.


The final thing to note/question, is that you keep saying how much that Artur was hit, as well as how much that Roy wasn’t, yet at the same time, you wouldn’t have given Roy even a chance of having beaten him.

I find that amusing.

Roy absolutely could have beaten him.

 

Thanks.

It’s not difficult.

 

I think that this is an exaggeration.

They’re both great fighters.

But Roy could absolutely have beaten them both with his great speed and unorthodox style.

 

One of the biggest clowns on the forum.

 

He only had the nerve to say that as he’d just fought him in a close fight.

And he thought that Roy was making excuses.

However, as I’ve noted in my previous reply to you, the exact same thing happened to Tarver when he fought Hopkins.

Tarver swears to it.

So that famous quote really did come back to bite him, just a few years later.

 

Tell that to Toney, Hopkins and Hill etc.

Easier said than done against that type of speed and style.

 

Exactly.

They’ll only look from one perspective.

We also had the same kind of debates when GGG and Kovalev first came onto the scene.

 

The man has issues, so do I and the same also probably applies to you. We should not call each other clowns however or try to demean or degrade each other.

 

I don’t normally.

But he’s been doing this since I became a member. And that was nearly 13 years ago.

 

His LHW legacy is mainly built off of Bivol & Gvozdyk. Those were his main era rivals. The WBC champion & the WBA champion. What's wrong with that? Who were Roys? DM & Tarver. What happened there? He didn't fight one & lost twice to the other. Conclusively. Hill was a good fighter but he was coming off a loss. As great as Roy was his legacy at LHW was not only unfulfilled but quite dubious if you factor in his obvious extreme PED use, unwillingness to fight good foreign fighters & the losses to Tarver. None of which to date you can tar Beterbiev with despite being nearly 5 years older than Roy was when he suffered his first proper loss. You lot can bang on about his 25lbs weight loss after Ruiz but James Toney was regularly starting camps nearly 50lbs above his fighting weight.. wheres the critique of Jones' win over him then? IMO Beterbiev has now surpassed Roy Jones at LHW.

 

What's missing from this discussion a bit is the greatness of James Toney, Bernard Hopkins, Antonio Tarver, Reggie Johnson, Virgil Hill, Eric Harding, Lou Del Valle, Mike McCullum and Julio Cesar Gonzalez. These are all fighters that Roy Jones jr beat. And while RJjr didn't beat all of them at LHW they all passed through that division at a later time. Jesus what a list.

No way these Bguys would have gotten through them. Reggie Johnson and Lou Del Valle would have koed them, McCullum was no joke. Hill would never have lost to them and the same applies for the Eric Harding that met Roy in the middle of the ring, Cesar Gonzalez may have lost to them but he would have made such fights competitive and there would always have been the chance of him beating them by ko.