Comparing Roy jones Jr at LHW to Artur beterbiev is crazy talk

You've just proven my point. Roy had nothing to lose after getting brutally KOed by Tarver. He had nowhere to go so of course he had to take risks at that point. And no, handpicking the feather fisted Glen Johnson to try and win a 'championship' (it was another in a long line of paper belts) is NOT a risk. Where was this attitude 10 years before? Where was this attitude when HBO was begging him to make the fights they wanted and the fans wanted? Glass Jaw Roy had no other choice at that point if he wanted to remain semi-relevant and even then he was off getting savagely KOed on other Continents.

 

Loudon makes a compelling argument once again with the following point:-

Perhaps we should beat our sons up with a lead pipe so they can become skilled like Roy Jones Jr.

After you made that compelling argument, I must change my stance on a hypothetical fight between Beterbiev and Roy Jones Jr, from a Beterbiev KO8 victory to a Beterbiev KO3 Roy Jones Jr.

Once Beterbiev's solid jab lands on Roy's skull, Roy will get flashbacks of his dad beating him up with a lead pipe, as Beterbiev is known to swing around a 20KG barbell for fun.

 

I never said that there was anything was wrong with it.

Roy’s rivals when he moved up to LHW, were Virgil Hill and Dariusz M.

It was Roy’s intentions to fight Hill, after he’d beaten Montell Griffin. But the DQ threw a spanner in the works. Because after that DQ loss, he was only focused on an obvious rematch at that point. But whilst Roy’s team were trying to secure a rematch, Dariusz went and fought Hill first.

I’ve told you about 3 times now, that Universum would not even meet with Roy’s advisors and the HBO execs for any official talks.

Again, not a single meeting ever took place between the two camps.

Dariusz was just happy milking his WBO belt, like Calzaghe did in Britain.

Regarding Toney, losing body fat from being overweight between fights, has absolutely nothing to do with burning away healthy muscle. It’s not even remotely the same.

Obviously the PED use can’t in any way be justified. But like I always say, nobody knows any of the specifics, and they were rife back then all throughout the sport.

Artur has just recorded a great official win over Bivol. However, myself and many others believe that Bivol won the fight.

Has he surpassed what Roy did at the weight?

He hasn’t got the overall depth to his resume.

He hasn’t looked as spectacular.

Yes, he obviously hasn’t got any losses, and he’s older than Roy. But nobody knows where he’d be right now, had he have turned pro earlier, where he’d have had 50 pro fights, where he’d gone up to CW and back. Nobody knows.

What we know, is that he’s only had 21 fights, where he’s fought less than a dozen world level fighters.

 

When you say Bguys?

Who are you referring to?

Bivol and Beterbiev’s B level opponents?

Or are you talking about Bivol and Beterbiev themselves?

 

Serge,

Ha!

Well, it seems as though you’ve developed a great Eastern European fetish over these last few years.

Of course.

Perfectly logical.


I don’t think that.

I’ve never once said that Roy was unbeatable.

I said that I can envisage a scenario where Artur could definitely have beaten him.

Bivol possesses the perfect style to have troubled any version of Artur.

Artur couldn’t trap Bivol due to his great movement.

And as we both know, Roy Levista had even more speed and movement than what Bivol has.

Of course.

They’re 2 great fighters.

It would always be an intriguing clash of styles.

No, I absolutely don’t think that it’s a given that a prime for prime fight would have played out completely differently.

Why would I?

There’s no evidence that a prime version of Artur would definitely have gotten him out of there.

There is nothing to suggest such a thing.

Dog owner of the year?

Ha!

That literally made me laugh out loud.


I’ve missed these exchanges.


Regarding his so called glass jaw, you’ve been trying to dine out on this for years now.

Yet the only knockout which was suspect, was the Johnson one.

All of the others would have knocked most guys out.

That shot by Tarver would have knocked out most LHW’s.


Artur has gone down from lesser punches.

Bivol has never taken anything like that as yet.

Let’s see a shot version of Artur take flush shots from guys like Lebedev and Enzo at CW-HW in his early to mid 40’s.

Give me an honest percentage of a Roy-Artur fight.

You never allow for circumstances, but you now expect me and others to do so?

Off balance?

Okay. Well we have discussed many times that when Del Valle caught Roy, that the canvas was wet, where the referee had to break the fight on two separate occasions, in order to wipe the wet canvas with a ringside towel.

When Del Valle hit Roy with that left hand, his back foot slipped fast on the canvas, causing him to fall face first on his gloves.

We’ve discussed this many times, and we have footage still available to view at any point.

So you want to talk about balance, but never mention that when mocking Del Valle’s knockdown of him.

If Roy’s back foot hadn’t have slipped so fast and hard, it’s debatable that Roy would have been knocked down at all.

Correct.

And so does Tarver.

What would Artur have done had he have taken that same punch by Tarver?

Again, let’s see Artur take those kind of shots.

Let’s see what the future holds.

Let’s see if he moves up to CW.

Yeah.

He should never have been licensed to be fighting world level CW’s.

His last top level win was in 2003.

The definition of irony, is:

“I wouldn’t write any world level fighter off”


As well as saying all throughout the thread, that Roy wouldn’t have had a chance.


So let’s be real now.

Let’s see an honest percentage.

Well, we’ve not debated/argued for a while.

So I thought that I’d put up my obsessed fan boy spin, up against your new Eastern European type spin.

Only good things can come from doing such things.


Where’s Bailey?

I hope that he’s okay.

Have you heard from him?

 

Can be misunderstood, sorry for not being clearer.

Since they both have names beginning with B I referred to them that way, it was meant as an alphabetical category based on their names not on their ability.

 

Serge,

So what if he wasn’t fighting world level guys until his first 21 fights?

Artur was fighting fellow amateurs, with head gear, under different scoring, in 3 round fights.

Of course it matters.

You’ve no idea who most of his fights were against.

He didn’t fight Usyk hundreds of times.

He fought many guys that you won’t know of, or have footage of, in 3 round fights.


I don’t know why you think it’s so impressive.

For all we know, Roy could have had harder spars in his camps.


Wow, he fought everybody they put in front in him.

Again, he was fighting amateur guys, at the same age that Roy was fighting James Toney.

Ha!

Well I could say that you’d love a threesome with Artur and Oleksandr.

There’s more than enough evidence to suggest it.

Roy used to train like a demon.

And then he fought world level fighters, instead of amateurs with head gear on.

I’ve not said that at all.

I’m only responding due to your complete dismissal of what Roy endured.

Again, you only focus on what you’re interested in.

Roy had bouts of inactivity, but he also fought through bad injuries too, like in the Hopkins fight.

Sir Joseph?

The WBO King!

“I don’t do rematches” said the great man.

(unless you’re name’s Mario Veit, and you’ve already been beaten in a round)

Again, what about the sparring, the camps, the pro fights etc?

Again, you have no idea of the majority of Artur’s opponents, or how they played out.

We can’t even be certain of the official number.

And when asked in an interview between the main difference between the ams and the pros, Artur said “The main difference is, the pros are a lot more aggressive”

I don’t know.

How would Artur have looked when Roy had hit him with a combination that he’s never seen before?

Again, that is disputed.

Again, they’re just numbers.

We have no idea who he fought, and how most of those fights played out.

I’ve never said such a thing.

Of course this is your opinion.

But you can’t envisage a win for Roy, simply because you don’t want to.


Look at their history.

The styles.


Roy would have had a very realistic chance of beating him, and we’ve just seen Bivol cause him huge issues with his speed and movement.

And whether you want to admit it or not, Bivol could always have given him a similar fight. And again, Roy was faster and more elusive than Bivol, with far more firepower and a bigger repertoire of shots at his disposal.

 

You don’t know anything about Reggie.

You’ve just been on BoxRec.


McCallum wasn’t just a LMW.


It’s funny how Dariusz was faded at 35 isn’t it.

The same age that Roy was against Tarver.

 

Based on what?

Because you believe that he didn’t want to fight Dariusz?

 

Great post.

As always.

 

You haven’t got the capacity to take any information onboard.

I’ve been trying now for 12 years.


YOU say that he was a glass jawed fraud.

Those are YOUR words.


So if that was true, even though Ruiz was only a B level HW, that by any metric, still HAD to have been a risk for Roy.

Burning healthy muscle in just 2 months, in order to fight a tough stylistic match up, against a talented and highly motivated southpaw, also HAD to have been a risk for him.


There’s simply no getting around that.

BOTH of those fights were risky for him.


You can’t just say things like: “Ruiz was boring, and he wasn’t Lennox etc”

A glass jawed fraud fighting ANY WORLD RANKED HW, HAD to have been a risk.


Yes, fighting Johnson was also a risk.

Because he was in the ring in September, after being badly knocked out in May.


Regarding HBO, please read carefully:

Along with Roy’s advisors, they went out of their way to try and make fights with Dariusz and Hopkins.


That is factual information.

Over the years, I have posted numerous links, with direct quotes from HBO’s execs.

Statements from Kerry Davis and Mark Taffet.

A direct quote from Mark Taffet, after meeting with Hopkins, the week after the famous live on air argument had ensued.


I’ve told you all of this before.

But you can’t comprehend it.


Also, Roy fought over 25 times on the network, across a period of around 15/16 years.

Yes, at times they were frustrated. But they were happy for the most part.


Hopefully you can absorb this information.

 

Great.

Now you might answer the points that were put to you on two posts.

 

No problem.

I just wasn’t sure.

Personally, I think that both Artur and Bivol would had to have been favoured over those guys.

However, they were very good fighters.

 

Are you having fun looking at boxrec records about fights and fighters that you have never seen?

LMAO about Reggie Johnson? You must be out of your mind. The guy has a few losses on his record sure but you have to look at those losses and who he lost to. Discounting his first 10 fights his next loss came to James Toney and he lost by a split decision. He also lost by UD to John David Jackson and being humble that is a fighter that I know very little about.

His two losses were split decision losses vs Jorge Castro himself, Jorge Castro was a phenomenon, the most underrated fighter of all times. Look at the Jorge Castro vs Roy Jones jr fight, Roy wasn't alot better than Castro, the difference between the two was mindblowingly small and to make things worse Roy enjoyed a size advantage over the guy, without that advantage who knows what would have happened.

A while after the loss Reggie would sign up to fight Tarver only to lose by again split decision and then he went on to defeat DM conqueror Gonzalez, not a bad run at LHW at all. And then you have to think of the way that Roy beat this accomplished fighter, he made him look like a nobody and your silly brain fell for it.