Comparing Roy jones Jr at LHW to Artur beterbiev is crazy talk

Padding posts to make a thread a 50 pager being compared to Roy padding a record with a few bum opponents. Man. That's just a bit of honourable trolling, a bit of wordplay camaraderie, or showboating on my part, just to add flavour to this intellectual combat of verbal warfare. You mentioned Team Elite earlier, well just ask any of their generals who used to give them the toughest time years back.

See this is the age old debate. And it comes down to how people score fights, and the debate was reignited post the Beterbiev/Bivol result.

Scoring criteria factors:-
1. Who landed more
2. Ring generalship
3. Damage
4. Hit and not be hit
5. Affective aggression.

But one of the overlooked factors these days is who was more of a man in the ring. Beterbiev had Bivol on passive mode, playing it safe, on retreat in the last three rounds. Championship rounds. Which is why I give the nod to Beterbiev. Out of all 4 Beterbiev, Roy, Tarver, Bivol, it's Beterbiev that looked the most dominating in this regard. He took the least damage whilst dishing out the most.

You bring up Roy's KO of Griffin with the lead uppercut. Do I think Artur can pull of such a KO over Griffin? No I don't. But I believe we both will agree that Beterbiev would crush Griffin. Maybe not with a lead uppercut, but he will crush him regardless. You bringing up Roy's lead uppercut KO over Griffin is just highlighting Roy's athleticism. He is gifted in this regard more than Beterbiev, more than pretty much every boxer than existed to be fair.

Both Roy and Beterbiev dominated their opponents in their own way.

Can Roy get a KO win over his opponent if there is a tap of blood opened on his forehead gushing out like Beterbiev did over Marcus Browne?

Can Roy demolish Joe Smith Jr's chin that has never been down as an amateur or pro within two rounds?

Can Roy carry his opponent for 11 rounds, holding back from knocking him out, and then go and get the KO win in the 12th as Artur did against Enrico Koelling? Artur purposefully held back his punches over Enrico Koelling because he wanted to prove to himself he can do the 12 rounds.

And I believe Roy comes out on top in all those hypothetical match ups. But he does it differently to Beterbiev. Both are killers in their own right that killed in a fashion that suited them. What makes Beterbiev a more proficient killer is he never relied upon one attribute like Roy did. Roy solely relied upon his superior athleticism without developing more diversity to his style. Once his athleticism diminished so did he. Beterbiev could have fallen in love with his power like Prince Naseem, or Iron Mike, or Wilder without harnessing other boxing attributes, and only relied upon power because he had a 100% KO ratio. But instead till this day into his 40s he continues an attempt to become a good boxer. Thats a major difference between Artur Beterbiev and Roy Jones Jr.

 

realsoulja,

Ha!

Very good.

I enjoyed seeing the old gang back.

Team Elite used to bring hours of entertainment.

I can remember HEADBANGER.

Yes, it's very subjective.

Bivol always had to be wary of Artur's power. But he impressed me a lot. He was actually more aggressive and offensive than what I expected him to be.

How do you see the rematch playing out?

You've made some great points.

I fully believe that Artur would have beaten Griffin etc.

Yes, Roy had incredible athleticism. But also amazing skill too. Great balance, timing and technique etc.

Yes, Artur's wins were extremely impressive.

I believe that Roy could have beaten Artur's opponents, but yes, they may have played out very differently.

I think that Roy's win over Hill was great too. Just because of the quality of the opponent, and how early it was.

Again, it's subjective on what we class as being impressive..

I do believe that Roy has got the deeper resume too. Although Artur is slowly catching up to that.

I respect this a lot.

Roy's style wasn't built for longevity.

He needed to either retire early, or he needed to change his in order style to compensate for his age. But I guess that that is very hard to do when you're living in the moment, and you've been doing the same thing for years.

 

In rematches, we should ask the question: Who can do more?

In my opinion Bivol boxed the best he could, he did better than expected. What more can he do? I can't see him doing anything extra in the rematch. He can't slug it out with Beterbiev. If he tries to conserve his energy for the championship rounds, then he might end up conceded earlier rounds to Beterbiev. How much more Bivol can do in the rematch depends on how much more risks Beterbiev is willing to take, the more Beterbiev forces the fight the more openings there will be for Bivol. But Bivol's preparation and gameplan as the initiator, I don't see what he can do more this time round. However in post fight interviews Bivol did say he could do more, so perhaps he can surprise me, that will be interesting.

Beterbiev on the other hand I can see him doing alot more in the rematch. Bodyshots, work rate, cutting the ring off, getting dirty with the grappling, rabbit punching, forcing the fight earlier, aggressive clinching. Beterbiev has more in his arsenal to add to his gaemplan in the rematch. However this will give the better boxer Bivol more openings. I don't think Beterbiev's age being a factor will be any different in the rematch than it was in the first fight. So this time round I see Beterbiev winning more clearly.

 

The fight could have gone either way. So a draw was reasonable.

 

The thing was that before Roy Jones jr destroyed Griffin he was acctually a great boxer. The Griffin that existed before that destruction would never have lost to Artur.

 

Correct. Beterbiev has fought his main rival & fully unified wheras Jones wouldn't & couldn't .. & then he got knocked out 3 times. Beterbiev >Jones.

 

Lol ok. Beterbiev would destroy that midget.

 

Beterbiev would destroy the former Olympian yes? The man who defeated James Toney twice and Eric "Tarver conqueror" Harding. Griffin himself also managed to go 12 vs Tarver at the age of 33.

Can you give me the contact information for your marijuana dealer? It sounds like he is selling really good stuff.

Beterbiev couldn't even defeat Bivol, there was a reason why middleweight Canelo chose Bivol as an opponent by the way, the reason had everything to do with the flaws of the eastern european athlete. Canelo went up all the way from welterweight to LHW, when should we expect similar accomplishments from Bivol? Is he currently in negotiations with any of the heavyweight contenders for an upcoming event?

Would you care to post any more of your ridiculous opinions on the matter?

 

Griffin was a very good & somewhat awkward little LHW.. but he wasn't anything special.. those Toney fights are higly contentious.. for me did not beat Toney, who threw and landed more shots in both fights.. & Toneys legacy at 175 isn't much to write home about anyway.. the Harding fight he officially lost that one although you could argue he edged it.. he also lost to Tarver, Hoye & Gonzalez .. & then Glen Johnson finished him off.. so all in all he's a fighter who looks to have some great wins but if you delve a little deeper into those wins* and look at his resume as a whole he doesn't stack up as a great fighter. Good, just not great. Michalkzewski & Jones were wiping the floor with most of these fighters, i dont see Beterbiev or Bivol as lesser fighters than DM. And Canelo didn't GO all the way up from WW.. he GREW up.. because he started boxing professionally at a very young age. Ive no doubt had many super middle weights and light heavy weights started boxing professionally at the age Canelo did they too would have started out at the lighter weights. Beterbiev DID beat Bivol, Bivol had the will beaten out of him, watch it again. I wouldn't have minded at a draw but I think the decision was fair. And hes 40 ffs cut him some slack..

 

Gvodzyk is an Olympic bronze medalist who got destroyed by Beterbiev.

Beterbiev is pushing 40 now, at 33 he was making Andre Ward question retirement.

Good marijuana wouldn't make me think a 5 ft 7 Montell Griffin could beat Bivol, Kovalev, Pascal, Hopkins, Gvodzyk, Ward, Chad Dawson... well he lost to Dawson, let alone Artur Beterbiev. Maybe crack cocaine might make me think 5 ft 7 Griffin beats Beterbeiv but not good marijuana.

5 ft 7 Griffin couldn't even last one round vs Roy Jones Jr.

And here you are praising Griffin for beating former Middleweight James Toney but want to discredit Bivol for owning Canelo because Canelo was a Middelweight. You should be the one being asked about your dealer not you asking anyone else for their dealer here.

Eastern European boxers have done very well in boxing since pro boxing has become promoted there.

Canelo started boxing age 15. He fought at Welterweight at age 19 and slowly moved as high as Light Heavyweight. Bivol at age 19 was competing at Amatuer light middleweight and grew into a light heavyweight. Usyk age 19 was in the middleweight division and grew into a heavyweight.

The most ridiculous opinion so far in this thread has been you suggesting 5 ft 7 Montell Griffin would never lose to Artur Beterbiev.... thats gonna be hard to beat by the rest of us.

 

Ahhh yes. The amazing LHW James Toney. The guy who lost to P4p great Drake Thadzi.

Beterbiev beat Bivol. Go check Boxrec man. And he was almost 40 compared to Griffins 33 against Tarver which seems to be impressive to you.

 

The great Antonio Tarver LOL that'll do me
What did he ever do besides expose Roy's glass jaw? He needed to be on the juice to beat Danny Green.

 

Beterbiev went life and death with Bivol and Yarde and you guys are still debating over what prime Roy Jones does to him? Come on. Bivol is literally nothing compared to Roy Jones.

 

39 year old Beterbiev dominates Bivol in the championship rounds.

39 year old Roy Jones Jr was getting clowned on by Calzaghe.

If you want to talk about Roy's prime then we gotta keep the playing field level by judging Beterbiev by the same metric.