Comparing the endurance of Joe and Lennox

This got me thinking: did Joe Louis have a better chin than Lennox Lewis?

Both times Lennox was KO'd it was a single well timed shot. Joe needed to be battered and pummeled into submission for both his KO losses.

A lot of Joe's knockdowns were flash knockdowns as evidenced by how quickly he got right back up and took care of business (like the buddy baer fight). He was sometimes off balance and didn't see the shot coming. At 6'5 Lennox and sticking his long pawing jab out, Lennox made himself a difficult target to land on so it could be the case that his chin wasn't as tested as Joe's to begin with.

However as Lennox grew older he did get nailed by some big shots from Briggs (technically a knockdown as the ropes held him up) and Vitali where he was gassed in just 6 rounds stumbling around and holding on for dear life to avoid being stopped. So while Lennox didn't have a glass chin he could take an odd shot here and there. But it seems he had poor recovery and leaky defense throughout his whole career honestly. His size, ring IQ, and power kept his opponents docile and camouflaged these weaknesses.

Joe seemed to have a shakey chin+balance issues but very good recovery.

 

Oliver was 231 and he had respectable power but was by no means a devastating puncher. His best kos were Bruce seldon, Akinwande, and Francesco damiani, all 3 of whom were c level fighters at best and not known for being durable to begin with. Oliver capitalized on a weakness of Lennox and had the legendary Emmanuel Stewart in his corner. He never had a devastating high profile ko before OR after the 1st Lennox fight.

Rahman also had respectable power but again, not some sort of devastating 1 punch ko artist. He went the distance with many of his best opponents and fought an older, less focused Lennox who was making movies, playing chess, chowing down and looking for a big pay day so he could retire.

I agree Louis and Lennox defeats were totally different. That was the entire point of the thread. Louis had nearly 2x as many fights as Lennox yet was only stopped 2x and both times it was a sustained beating over many rounds. The weights of the opponents aren't going to make an enormous difference, especially for someone like Marciano who hits harder than either Oliver or Rahman. A sustained beating shows that you obviously have a decent chin whereas Lennox was KO'd early twice from one big shot. It's not like Lennox was in there with a Wilder or Shavers type of opponent, that would be more forgivable.

 

I agree. And I think someone else made this point before but people kept shifting the goal posts to say Lennox wouldn't be in a position to get pounded on by those 2--ignoring the question. Maybe not Schmeling, but I definitely don't see Rocky failing to stop Lennox if he could hammer away at him for 8 rounds. The fact Joe was shot and gunshy with the right yet it took that long for him to get KO'd says a lot.

 

Reminds me of the thread where Mendoza said Frazier (a come forward swarmer) had a 6/10 chin and 6/10 defense with bad recovery.

 

Ruddock landed nothing significant and was demolished in 2 rounds.

-Morrison similarly got knocked down 4x and knocked all over the ring, was busted up and had a cut, and landed barely more than 30 power shots.

Tua landed a few good shots but was pretty gunshy for much of the fight. Neither guy wanted to take too mant chances and were wary of each other, tua content to lose wide and Lennox content to win by decision.

-Briggs actually scored an unofficial knockdown on Lennox. The ropes kept him up.

-Lennox was stumbling around like a drunk and clinching for dear life against Vitali. If he hadn't managed to stop Vitali with the cut, he would have gotten stopped, no way he makes the distance the way his legs looked.

I'll give you Mason, Grant, Mercer, and Bruno. I'm not saying Lennox never got hit, but with context the number of punchers he faced doesn't look as impressive when the actual fights are examined with a magnifying glass. A lot of those guys were past their prime too.