Comparing Tyson and Lewis' competition

Ali didn't hold 2 of the 3 alphabet belts, nor was the The ring champ (or ring #1, can't recall exactly what Holy was) going into the fight with Holmes.

Holy was v Lewis. Holy was also considered the favourite by some going into the fight.

Comparing the Ali/Holmes fight with Holy/Lewis is stretching things to the extreme. Ali was far from a current champ at the time of that fight.

Holy had 3 more title fights AFTER that fight with Ruiz, and is still in line for 1 many years later right NOW.

If you discount Lewis's win over Holy, you have to discount Holys wins over Tyson don't you? I mean, how much after those fights was the first Lewis fight? If that's the case, then Tyson was shot when Holy won.

You can't have it both ways. You can't say Tyson had something left when Holy beat him, but Holy was shot when Lewis beat him. It's not like it was 5 years between the fights.

I didn't give Lewis any credit for beating Tyson in 02. I said Tyson and/or his handlers wanted no part of Lewis in 96 - they wanted Holy instead.

 

Kid G makes the obvious point that on some nights an upset will happen. That's one of the reasons we watch, else why not play all sports in a computer or as they used to say, "on paper". You ask What's so hard to accept about that? See 2 posts above yours...

Yes, and while there are reasons for this that have little to do with actual boxing prowess, it's also the reason these two are overrated. With Tyson it's the constant excuses about all his personal failings, prison, a bad marriage (Givens), Don King, lost Cus, blah, blah... he had such a short prime :| Enough already ! It's like he's this child. The guy had more money pass through his hands in one year than most posters will see in a lifetime. Tyson isn't the only person in the world or the US to grow up in hard circumstances. And few will have the opportunities he had. He had a terrific late 80s, then one Buster Douglas exposed him over 17 years ago. He's so great but had this nanosecond prime. By the time he's 36 and fighting the similar aged LL, poor Mike was so washed up. But before he faught LL, the general public and many fight fans didn't think this way ! It's the Wlad effect. Before Wlad, fighter X will expose his chin, after Wlad wins, fighter X was a bum anyway :-( Same with LL. :yep

With Ali it's even more complex. The 'Nam issue even comes into play. Although what bearing a guys political stances should have on his boxing career makes no sense. Please, I know the story. He was robbed. He made a decision and robbed himself. When I was very young some (white) guy in the neighberhood refused to be drafted. He did some time. Then of course Ali huggers marry the best of the pre exile Ali with the best of the post Ali exile, add a dash of hype and myth, and presto, the best ever !

Fighters like LL, K bros, and others would easily beat all of Ali's & Tyson's fair to middling opponents, and could compete with or beat the rest.
And spare me the selective sampling and selective memory arguments. :deal

 

Lewis was older than Tyson but Tyson peaked much earlier than Lewis.

 

atsch Film doesnt lie ! Those guys were not very good and its all on YOUTUBE for you to see !:yep Now go get some youtube lessons !:good

 

:happy :good You sir know your stuff !

 

If one guy enters his prime at a far younger age than most heavyweights it doesen't seem that unreasonable that he might begin to decline at a younger age. In fact one could argue that Tyson had a longer prime than Lewis did it's just that it started when he was only 20. Tyson was in his prime against Douglas and Holyfield. However, the Lewis fight occurred in 2002, which is more than 15 years after the Berbick fight. Lewis's entire professional career did not even span 15 years.

 

In the investment world everybody is a genius - after the fact. Yeah, I could see that stock was going down, or gold would go up, oil volatile, yadda yadda.

Before he faught Lewis few fight fans were talking about how washed up Tyson was... after Lewis some started to see the truth. And still many Tyson fanatics would not give up the hype of Mike until they saw him flat on his butt vs the "great" Kevin McBride 3 years later. :verysad :gsg

 

I never gave up hope until that night I always made excuses for him, that was sad night for me I think the date was like june 11 05 I always remember what Im doing the night of a Tyson fight lol.

 

Thanks 2smart4u I've been observing this sport for 40 years.

I may dislike some fighters but really hate none of them. They're human beings with good and bad points just like all of us. Many of them aren't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but that's not uncommon in pro sports. As I've gotten older I tend not to worship any of them. I admire their skill, but it amazes me how many middle aged and older men seem to live through their sports heros or derive some sort of self esteem from their exploits.

 

I have to admit, you surprised me with that response.

 

Whys that? I grew up watching Tyson Im sure you had a sports star you enjoyed watching and spent time following there career, I guess I always wanted Tyson to go out with a blaze of glory not like that, quiting on his stool.

 

Exactly - been in the fight game for thirty years now, seen them come seen them go and no-one is as ferocious as a "fan" who feels their fighter has let them down. Goes two ways - either they turn and drop them like a hot potato or obsess and make constant excuses. Rarely do they ever exemplify a sporting attitude.

 

:good No problem my friend ! The ALL TIME GREAT explanation gets very tired after awhile ! Espesally when you lived through the eras ! You got it spot on ! Cheers !

 

What I meant was that you just gave an honest answer... instead of a smart ass repsonse trying to get into some pissing duel like others do here too readily.

Don't see the appeal of the many who do it on this and many boards of this type. Off & on I've been reading this team sports board for over 5 years. Same thing over there. It would be worse but it's more moderated. I've come close to joining but haven't yet. I read ESB for over 3 years before officially joining. I only have so much time to read this and other forums - never mind lame back and forth insults with strangers. It's funny because I'm much more blunt in person than most people, that is I'm not very "political". But on a forum like this I try to keep it to the arguments about the sport and its participants. It's clear that more than a few posters are flat out trolls.

 

:good