Comparing Tysons performance in Bruno 1 vs the Ruddock fights. Tyson was not declining

Come on @Bojak you are better at explaining this than me.

 

I think you do a good job.

Personally, I think Tyson showed a lot of maturity in the first Ruddock fight. For the first 5-6 Ruddock mostly spolled really, tried to hold on with his long powerful arms every time Tyson came near. But Mike didn't get overeager and waste a lot of juice for nothing. Rather he picked his spots, hurting Ruddock to the body with some vicious shots, and bided his time. Eventually Ruddock was forced to open up, and Tyson had him out of there with trademark combos shortly after he did. Yes, he caught Tyson with some good shots before Tyson got him out of there, but if you're the much shorter guy against someone with a good offense your bound to eat some shots.

Tyson did so against for example Smith and Tucker as well, without stopping them. Tyson had a very good defence, but he wasn't impossible to land on. When opponents of good quality took the risk of opening up against him they did in most cases land some good shots (Tillis, Smith, Thomas, Tucker, Tubbs and Bruno all did - and then of course Douglas), but the price they paid for doing that was almost always higher than the reward, since Tyson was such a great fighter in terms of both defence and offense. Ruddock was no different.

 

Excellent.

 

I agree with this. You are correct.

 

Those are my true feelings. They've varied over the years but i've taken more stuff on board and this is where i now sit.

 

Yes Tyson was such a great fighter. For all I can point out an explanation of why he looked less magical against a live opponent, he still beat those guys like Tucker, green, Bruno, Berbick, Biggs, Williams, Golota, Ruddock and Botha. It’s not like he lost each time somebody came to fight.

 

Well said. Very honest. A man who thinks the same as an adult as he did as a kid has not learned much.

 

If the Thomas fight was in 1991 and the Ruddock fight in 1987, all else being equal, I think that judgements would be quite reversed.

Tyson's performance against Razor would be praised for how good he looked in the first and last round against a dangerous contender who had just massacred a long term titleist and contender like Dokes. His performance against Thomas, on the other hand, would be critized for how lackluster he looked rds 2-5 against a contender past his best (which Thomas was in 1987).

Threads like these would be filled with "Just compare how he looked against Ruddock at his peak to how he looked against a Thomas just out of rehab. Tyson's decline between the fights is so obvious it's laughable."

 

With that said I think Tyson was at his most prepared and focussed in fights like the ones against Berbick, Holmes and Spinks.

It is of course very hard to get up at 6 am and hit the pavement when you have millions upon millions in the bank, the biggest stars wanting to party with you and the most beautiful women wanting to sleep with you. But Tyson isn't unique in that he was to at least some degree distracted by this, it's those that aren't that are the real exceptions.

 

Not really, look at Holyfield. The guy made as much money in boxing as Tyson, but always kept his discipline. Never gave up training and preparing hard for a fight and always came into a fight in shape. Just because Tyson had $400 million in the bank is no excuse to give up your work ethic and discipline the manner in which he did.

Even Lewis is a good example in this regard. Always maintained his training discipline and work ethic.

 

Yeah, the Lewis that turned up against Vitaly was in stellar shape, wasn't he? Those extra 10 lbs of fat was only for the ... cold?

As good a trainer as Holy was, he still didn't leave more cleanly than to contract hepatitis. Probably by sleeping with a lot of women.

 

Didn't Lewis get lucky in that fight with that cut because Vitali was leading on the scorecards and had the bout been allowed to go on, i doubt whether Lewis could finish him off because he had shot all his load and was out of gas by round 6 which you can tell by the manner in which he went to his stool. Vitali was not a very hard puncher at all btw, more of an accumulation puncher

 

The bout wasn't allowed to go on because of Vitaly's face coming off.

But that has nothing to do with the original point. You said Lewis always was in shape. He sure wasn't for Vitaly.

Personally, I think he looked off in a number of fights. The ones against McCall and Rahman, but also the one against Mercer. Against Rahman he proved he could do much better, against Mercer and McCall it's harder to say.

 

The more i think about it the better the Ruddock effort was. Tyson took and dished out a lot of punishment and didn't shirk at all. The only kicker is we have to somewhat accept that the Tyson fights ruined Razor to a very significant degree because he sure didn't do much of anything thereafter.

 

Yep. Those are always hard to know. Don't think I've rewatched the Morrison fight since I saw it live, but I remember that as a barn burner. As for Lewis, Ruddock became quite dependent on his "smash" and that wasn't going to help much against Lewis firing his overhand right from the outside.