Foreman was something else already in the late 60's early 70's and that probably was unrelated to roids, but it's hard to know when they came into boxing. I wouldn't be surprised if he took them during his comeback, though. The sport was probably quite rife with them in the late 80's, and if you're in your late 30's coming back from ten years inactivity it's hard to compete as it is, but harder still if you're clean and facing much younger guys that aren't.
Shavers by a fairly signficant amount IF you are counting one punch power landed squarely. Tyson is better, superios at landing, better combinations, endurance, chin-nearly everything else. But a few folks hit harder than Tyson for a single punch. Tyson's power was in part due to his speed-folks could not see or adjust to/roll with the punch. Effectiveness does not prove who just hit harder. In his time, Bonecrusher, Ruddock, Bruno, Tua, Old Foreman, Morrison (with steroids) all hit harder than him... For single shots, if landed the same way.
Amazing post John. I'd say this describes Cleveland Williams to a tee, though I'd say he didn't reach those heights is mostly that the contenders of that Era, and the champion (Patterson) weren't exactly Keen to face him, rather than the lack of capability on his part.
He's one of those extremely powerful punchers who didn't fight well enough or take it good enough to take advantage of it. There's been the odd great thread on it. So many amazing bangers that didn't get that far in the big scheme of things.
How many times do these threads come up? If either hit you chances are you're going to go over or at least be stunned.
What's interesting about the Shaver's shot is we don't even have a great shot of the impact .. Larry has said decades later he still had flashbacks of the horrific power of that punch .. even Holmes's biggest detractors have to say the man had exceptional heart and recuperative powers ..
Weren't you the one saying Liston was NOT ducked by Patterson? I wouldn't exactly call you an expert on this subject.
No, rightly so, because I actually thought Patterson lost his title to Liston, when he really ducked him the whole time and lost his title to...?
Liston didn't enter the rankings until 1959, at nr 9. That year Floyd lost his title to Ingo who was ranked nr 1. He won it back the next year and honoured the rematch clause the year after that, 1961. You might equal honouring a rematch clause against a guy who brutally KO'd you to cherry picking, but I sure don't. After that he took one soft defense in the end of 1961 before taking on Liston in 1962. Sure, he could have taken on Liston in late 1961 instead of in the summer of 1962 (which I have stated before), but that would equal seven months of ducking, not years. So, in theory, you could say Liston was ducked for seven months, but in reality it's hardly a scandal that Floyd took a year from ending a trilogy with his until then most difficult opponent before facing a top contender again. And when was Williams ever a shoe in for title shot? His highest rankings was nr 7 during the years Floyd was champ and that was the year he lost his title to Liston. And if you think the Ring rankings were totally out there, who did Williams beat to be the clear nr 1 contender?
D'Amato literally all but admitted to avoiding Liston, Valdez, Folley, among others. Liston cleared the division for 4 years, beating fighters Patterson wouldn't go near. The fact that you're trying to justify this is laughable.
D'Amato tried to make Floyd avoid Liston, yes, but Floyd overruled him. So they met. Simple. Again, which were the years when Floyd should have faced Liston? in 56-58 Liston wasn't ranked so you can't seriously mean he was ducked then. in 59 Floyd faced his nr 1 challenger and lost his crown to him, so that year is out as well. In 60 his only fight was reclaiming the crown. In 61 he honoured his rematch clause (which Liston would do as well later, and Ali to him) and closed out the year with a soft defense. Then Liston got his shot. So I repeat which were these "years"? And Valdes? Don't think he was ever ranked in the top 5 during Floyd's time as champ, so how on earth was he ducked? You're thinking of Marciano, right? And, again, when was Williams ducked? The only year he was ranked during Floyd's time as a champion was the year when Floyd lost his crown to Liston. So should Floyd have bypassed Liston for Williams in order not to duck Williams? That doesn't make sense, does it? And Valdes? He was a fringe contender at best when Floyd was a champ. You must think of Marciano when saying he was ducked.