Complete Ring Magazine Archive

You said never happened. Debunked. The eye witness account states otherwise. Is the newspaper account a lie or not? I'm not interested in all the other nonsense. Did it or did it not happen.

never happen... should mean that the event shouldn't be found in the newspaper the next day.

If it never happened I'm trying to figure out why it is wrote in the newspaper. I can cross refence another one. I don't care about the rest of the story....only if this singular event happened. Because you claimed it didn't happen at all. Quote Never happen....

Certainly i found inaccuracy in newspapers before. It happens. I don't care about the rest of the story...I wondering why they are printing stuff that never happened. The newspaper not The Ring Magazine.

I'm not saying the newspaper is right or wrong. I'm trying to tell if the event is fabricated not a paragraph of options about decorum. Why this or that was done.

If you think the newspaper is telling an outright fabricated lie....I can research a different paper.

I don't care that much about ketchel I'm just posting articles. If people say something is an OUTRIGHT lie I'll look into it. In this specific case the newspaper backs up the story.
I'm just posting cool articles. Not trying to get into debates. Or trigger people with PTSD. About the horror of Ring Magazine. I'm trying to contribute here.

 

Nice to read about this match here.

This content is protected

 

Really interesting here...

This content is protected

 

"one of the most unsportsmanlike acts in the history of the ring" Your words. What rule did Papke break by going right into the fight after the bell rang? Did he bite Ketchel's ear? Punch him in the nuts so hard and so many times he was DQd not once but twice in fights? Did he remove the padding from his gloves so he could beat his face to pulp? Did he drink stimulants from a tainted water bottle to help his stamina? No, none of these things. He did something that Marco Antonio Barrera did multiple times fighting Naz and was cheered for.

Its funny, you say "if you think the newspaper is telling an outright fabricated lie... I can research a different paper. So you searched one source? I get it, you finally got a chance to read old ring magazines and your excited. But thats not how someone claiming to be a historical society should conduct research. "Woohoo, Ive got a ring magazine subscription and can read!" (kind of "I known about this moment for quite awhile" "what I missing here?" Let me help you with your "research":

Los Angeles Times:

"Papke dashed to the front when the barrier flew up, and carried the fight to the "champion." He would not shake hands with him because in their other fight at Milwaukee Ketchel played a trick on Papke in the hand shaking period and knocked him down with a hard smash. Papke told him "not for me Stanley", and then went at it."

San Francisco Examiner:

"The men come up but Papke does not take Ketchel's extended hand. They feint rapidly, each man shooting in light blows to the face. Papke feinted with the left and shot the right over on the jaw, which staggered his man."

Los Angeles Herald: "He (Papke) recalled the Milwaukee battle and refused to shake hands. And he was not afraid of that famous shift, because he had figured out how to avoid it and turn it to his own advantage. When the gong rang he sailed across the ring to meet Ketchel and immediately began mauling away for the championship... Papke started the first round with a wild right swing that never landed and Ketchel put over the first blow of the fight, slamming his left to the head." And later "Papke refused to shake hands. Ketchel landed the first blow, a left to the head."

The Los Angeles Express makes no mention of the incident whatsoever it was so inconsequential.

San Francisco Bulletin: "When they went to the center at the opening gong he refused to shake hands with the champion, not wishing to take a chance on what he got at their last meeting, but went tearing in with a look on his face that meant business."

Los Angeles Evening Post: "In the first round Papke had no trouble in reaching his man. Not two seconds after the gong sounded Papke drove a hard left to Ketchel's face and the latter went down for the count."

The Los Angeles Examiner: "At 8:15 the opening bell rang and the two young giants jumped from their corners with determination written on their faces. Papke assumed the offensive, diving right into Ketchel with left and right to the head."

And "Papke's victory was clean cut, decisive, and won without a speck of suspicion."

Their round by round analysis: "The men come up, but Papke does not take Ketchel's extended hand. They feint rapidly, each man shooting in light blows to the face. Papke feinted with the left and shot the right over on the jaw which staggered his man."

Papke's own words immediately after winning: "I have won the championship and made good my contention that Ketchel beat me with a chance blow at Milwaukee. As I went to shake hands with him he shifted and knocked me down and I was dazed the rest of the ten rounds. You noticed that I didnt shake hands with him today. I wasnt going to give him a chance to repeat his Milwaukee trick."

Ketchel's words: "There is little for me to say. I was beaten and beaten fairly."

The old saying is "shake hands and come out fighting." Not "come out, shake hands, and then come out fighting again."

Please show me the rule that states the fighters have to shake hands after the bell rings.

Again, this story by Pete Stone (who wasnt even Ketchel's second for this fight) was embellished over and over again to pretend that Ketchel got punched in the throat when the fighters went to shake hands before the fight, never recovered, and thats the reason he lost. It wasnt true and even Stone's story is making a mountain out of a mole hill which you take even further to claim it was this legendary unsportsmanlike act. It wasnt. Long before this fight was ever staged Papke had complained far and wide that Ketchel punched him during a handshake and that was the reason he lost the first fight. He made it clear he wouldnt fall for such a trick again. When Ketchel extended his hand AFTER THE BELL SOUNDING THE BEGINNING OF THIS FIGHT Papke ignored it and fought. Some reports even have Ketchel landing the first punch. Most have the fighters feinting and sparring for an opening. None make any claim that Papke did anything unsportsmanlike or illegal. Yet you think this should rank up there with fighters like Golota, Resto, Tyson, Bummy Davis and others because you read it in a magazine...

 

Reading up on their first fight, there are reports of them shaking hands, Ketchell did drop Papke in the first few seconds. Afterward Papke offered no excuse but in some reports he said he never recovered from the first shot.

 

I worked the corner for my son when he was about 10 years old, his opponent, a traveller, sucker-punched him at the opening bell by offering his hand, then wham, resulted in the best scrap of the night! The rule in amateur boxing was to touch gloves before the last round only so unsporting but legal.

 

So that's where Tyson Fury got the idea from.

 

Thanks this was what i was looking for the newspaper articles. Thanks for taking the time to do this. At least one book i read on ketchel was pushing this theory. I just never looked into it. That's an issue i found with books the author is so invested in his subject he blurs reality. I'm solely after the truth.

Thanks for taking the time to do this Rocky. Friends
I certainly don't want to perpetuate fabrication. So that was a very slanted newspaper article. I ran across them before. It's incredible to think they are trying to hoodwink people. That's crazy to think about. I don't try and make anything personal (directed at the poster) & I appreciate you didn't either. This should be a learning environment. That's why i asked what am i missing? Is was genuine. I will at never point in my life be convinced i know it all...i'm constantly in learning mode with an open mind.

As far as Ketchel goes this was one of his worst beatdowns ever. Certainly lends my theory he was actually separated by Papke or Klaus by very much if at all.
A generational talent i never thought he was these guy's are the same weight class and have just as much talent as him.

 

Very grateful.

 

It wouldn't surprise me. Let's hope he's not kneeing him in the groin Sandy Ferguson style...haha. That was the ultimate F you to your opponent.

Did he do something specific? I only read the first few rounds. Ketchel couldn't see out of his eye after round 1 it seemed so he might of had bad judgement on distance.

 

I already did. I dont find any evidence of it in the Milwaukee papers but why the Milwaukee story is important is because Papke used it as an excuse a lot prior to the

Ive done that as well:

Milwaukee Daily News: "Hardly had the gong sounded for the first round when Ketchel sent in a right to the jaw that put Papke to one knee. But he was down only a moment. He worked through the rest of the round at some disadvantage because of the force of that knockdown wallop."

Round by round report: "Ketchel did not waste a second after the gong rang. He shot his right to Papke's jaw like a flash and the Kewanee boy went down to one kee. He was up in a second."

Milwaukee Free Press: "For an instant it looked as if the battle was to be short and sweet. Scarcely had the men shaken hands after the gong brought them together in the initial round when Ketchel shot out a lightning right. It connected flush with Papke's jaw, sending him to the canvas with a jolt. As instantaneous as the blow was Papke'sspring back into postion. There was a dazed expression on his face, but he shook his head, gathered together his scattered senses and began to flail away with both hands. His sudden recovery and furious onslaught sent the fans into an uproar.

Round by round report: "They shake hands and Ketchel crosses a lighning right to Papke's jaw, dropping him like a shot. Papke sprang to his feet immediately and Ketchel drove a right to the stomach, following with a right to the ear."

The Milwaukee Journal: "The two men came together like a flash. Almost at the very start Ketchel caught Papke neatly on the jaw and floored him in his own corner. But the lad from Kewanee was on his feet in an instant fighting back with all his might.

The Milwaukee Sentinel: "It looked like Ketchel from the start. Papke danced out of his corner with his usual jaunty air, smiled as he shook hands and made a few passes. Then he ran into a right hook and hit the floor with a thud. It didnt hurt him much, but when he got up his smile was not so confident, his air was not so jaunty. He looked at Ketchel with a ***** look and backed away. It was a different Papke after that.

Round by Round: "Ketchel lands right to jaw and knocks down Papke. Ketchel lands left and right to body. They clinch."

Papke: "Stanley Ketchel beat me honestly, but I want another chance at him. That knockdown he scored in the first round took some of the steam out of me. Had I been as careful as I ought to have been Ketchel would not have slipped that over on me."


My take on both fights is this: Immediately after the fights, in the presence of people who actually witnessed them, neither fighter had any complaint. It was only later when they were trying to give an excuse to the wider public who hadnt been witness to the fights that they began to cry foul. Both were probably just a bit embarrassed that they got nailed almost immediately after the bell rang but neither instance was illegal or unethical.

The importance though, of Papke's story about getting hit on the handshake is that he was loud and clear about this long before he fought his second fight with Ketchel and as such Ketchel has no real complaint about being blitzed early because Papke was clear he wasnt going to be taking part in any niceties once the bell sounded the fight. Ketchel has become a boxing folk hero though and as such this excuse for why he lost to Papke has been embellished for decades to explain away the loss. However, when you read about both fighters they were very evenly matched at the time and while Papke didnt set the world on fire the way Ketchel did he doesnt need any made up excuses for being able to beat Ketchel. Like I mentioned before, many observers felt he deserved no worse than a draw in their fourth fight if not a win and even after getting dropped in the first round of their first fight in Milwaukee he gave a good account of himself against Ketchel that left many at ringside singing his praises and stating the fighters needed a longer bout. After that fight Papke didnt have a mark on him beyond a chipped tooth he got from that first punch Ketchel landed, while Ketchel had a swollen nose, a cut cheek, and bruises about his face and neck.

 

Good work, Rock!