Compubox stats shows an Pac outlanding JMM 6 rounds to 5 rounds

enzo · Mar 16, 2008

Garlic said:

I can't understand how you could give JMM the first round. JMM had that one clean punch which for some reason got the only replay, but Pac landed the harder shots and landed more of them.
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same reason why i gave that round to pac

kg0208 · Mar 16, 2008

Boom_Boom said:

exactly

It seemed like if Pac doest hurt JMM in a round then it goes to the one who is classified as the boxer by default, which in this case JMM
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Have you ever seen me do that?

Why would I anyways, when I picked Pacquiao to win? Certainly doesn't benefit me any to give Pacquiao the benefit of the doubt. I also said I thought a Pacquiao win was better for boxing.

Seriously guys, think about it. There are certainly rounds you guys scored for Pacquiao that I could question. The rounds were close, Pacquiao won and I have no problem with it or your cards because of the closeness of the rounds.

Boom_Boom · Mar 16, 2008

kg0208 said:

Have you ever seen me do that?

Why would I anyways, when I picked Pacquiao to win.

Seriously guys, think about it. There are certainly rounds you guys scored for Pacquiao that I could question. The rounds were close, Pacquiao won and I have no problem with it or your cards because of the closeness of the rounds.
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Im not accusing you directly, mainly at the HBO crew.

Pacquiao threw more, landed more, and landed more effective shots in the round, all i saw from JMM was a counter right and a body punch at the end.

enzo · Mar 16, 2008

I say round 7 and 9 were very close... it's just that pac landed more shots and if you watch the replay pac actually blocked most of JMM's punches with his gloves.

Boom_Boom · Mar 16, 2008

enzo said:

I say round 7 and 9 were very close... it's just that pac landed more shots and if you watch the replay pac actually blocked most of JMM's punches with his gloves.
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oh but wait pacman has absolutely no defense didnt you know? so those shots count as landed for JMM

kg0208 · Mar 16, 2008

enzo said:

I say round 7 and 9 were very close... it's just that pac landed more shots and if you watch the replay pac actually blocked most of JMM's punches with his gloves.
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I think that happened for both fighters. Either way, I think I have talked about this fight enough.

Some good fights coming up, and time to start talking about those.

enzo · Mar 16, 2008

Boom_Boom said:

oh but wait pacman has absolutely no defense didnt you know? so those shots count as landed for JMM
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It looked bad coz of pac's poor balance... but seriously if you watch it again and i've watched it 4 times already since yesterday pac was blocking JMM's punches with his gloves (rnds 7 and 9)

eliqueiros · Mar 16, 2008

pejevan said:

There are are a lot of people who are saying that JMM should have won, was robbed...... blah, blah, blah.......

Infact, many people were using the compubox stats to back up their claim. True, based on a twelve (12) round fight, JMM outlanded Pac.

But fights are not scored on based on how many punches were thrown the entire fight but on a round per round basis.

Using the same figure (compubox), it seems that Pac outlanded JMM in 6 rounds while JMM outlanded Pac in 5 rounds with one round equal.

Here is how compubox had it:

Pacquiao connected with more blows in the first (12-6), fourth (19-14), sixth (16-15), ninth (13-12), 10th (17-15) and 11th (16-12). That's 6 rounds.

Marquez earned edges in the second (18-9), fifth (12-10), seventh (15-12), eighth (21-5) and 12th (19-15). That's 5 rounds

The third round is an even round in terms of connect but that was where the KD occurred.

I am not putting this up to denigrate the accomplishments of both fighters but it is quite disheartening that so many threads about robbed, etc had come out. The fight was very close and any decision for or against both fighters seems acceptable. Even a draw was acceptable. No one really dominated the other.
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Cool. Good argument based on reason for Pac. I need to see the fight again but had Marquez winning it.

eliqueiros · Mar 16, 2008

Boom_Boom said:

The 8th round was really what inflated JMM's compubox numbers he landed 30 to Pacs 8, which is why I hate compubox and idiots who use it to justify winners of a fight. People act as if the tale of the numbers says it all in a fight, last time i checked fights are scored on a round by round basis not a overall degree.
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Also, scored in the heat of the battle which means it is hard to see through what McNamara called "the fog of war." Only afterwards are things clear.

pejevan · Mar 16, 2008

i think the reason why there is discrepancy between how people score this fight is that JMM really boxes beautifully. He connects cleanly and is good to see in the TV. In contrast, Pac is really ackward looking in the ring and his punches do not land as beautifully as JMM. You expect really a counterpuncher to look good in the TV. This destroys objectivity because people tend to see what is connecting more beautiffuly.

That is just my theory among several theories because I do not get the scores of 9-3 or 8-4 for JMM. I do not want to label people as imbeciles or morons so I am trying to find a plausible explanation. I have not started yet on the JFK murder.

vargasfan1985 · Mar 17, 2008

i hate when people use compubox as a tool. it proves nothing

if fighter A lands 20 putty pat punches and fighter B lands 13 bombs im probably going to give the round to fighter B

pejevan · Mar 17, 2008

vargasfan1985 said:

i hate when people use compubox as a tool. it proves nothing

if fighter A lands 20 putty pat punches and fighter B lands 13 bombs im probably going to give the round to fighter B
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It would not prove anything but we are looking the fight at a hindsight and it add credence to the discussion. The stats might be off by 1-3 punch because of the way it is recorded but it is by far the most objective way of counting punch stats (instead of using the fan's subjective story of how the fight went). Unless you would like to nitpick and go over the fight again in slow motion and count it as it is.

In a fight as close as this, I have heard all absurdity for and against both fighters. Some who contend that JMM won even used the compubox to state their case. Yet, the compubox stats actually slightly favor Pac except in that round with 21-5 stat.

One thing is certain. This discussion would never end.

Eradicator's_IT · Mar 17, 2008

pejevan said:

What people seems to be saying is that a powershot of Pac is equal to a powershot of JMM. But body language as well as damage to the face would tell otherwise. Assuming that JMM outlanded Pac in powershot, the difference is tht Pac's powershot had a more telling effect than that of JMM. When JMM connects, it just disrupts Pac's rhtyhm that Pac needs to reposition, whereas when Pac connects, there result is entirely different. Just look at JMM's face after the fight.

It is just the gist of the two fights. JMM connecting more but Pac doing the more damage with his power.
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i agree....its the power and intensity that counts during that fight...end of story!

divac · Mar 17, 2008

kg0208 said:

Any of the close rounds being reversed would have changed the score though.

I haven't used Compubox to back up my scorecard. Sometimes a fighter will land more punches but they aren't as clean or effective. They don't count how clean the punch is.
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Exactly, punchstat has zero relevance in scoring a boxing match.
Thats why I hate it that HBO relies on it so much......

Round 3 of this fight was a prime example, if we were to go by punchstats, we'd all have JMM winning round 3 in which it showed that JMM outlanded Pac in.......as we know, JMM was battered from pillar to post in that round!

I have never used punchstats, even in situations where it benefited my point of view.

Point blank, they're just unreliable, and they're contolled by bias human beings just as a judge may be!

Judge with your eyes, not by compubox!
This fight, especially round 3 which Pac won big, is a prime example of it!

DamonD · Mar 17, 2008

I find it a bit ironic to reject the claims of Compubox superiority on one side by...presenting Compubox stats to show superiotity on the other.

The prevailing argument for Pac-man fans was "the stats don't count", but now found to be in favour in certain rounds, they do...

Either rely on them for both, or don't bother.

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Compubox stats shows an Pac outlanding JMM 6 rounds to 5 rounds

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