Conteh vs Monzon

On what basis do you say that nobody thought Conteh was an elite fighter during the seventies? I'm not sure what you're basing your opinion on pal, what evidence do have to back that up? Even not taking into account that it's a really broad, nebulous statement that can't really be substantiated? Media/journalistic opinion in general? Widespread fan opinion? Dig about for both and you'll find plenty to refute what you've said. Even if it were true and Conteh was lightly regarded by some during his time, opinions can rightly change once a fighter had been retired for a while and the dust has settled. Reappraisal and all that.

I've got more to add but more pressing things to attend at present, I'll elaborate further in the near future.

 

His record may be misleading, but facts are facts. Conteh did not beat great opposition and will go down in history as a “what if”....he was very inconsistent against the best fighters he fought. To pick him over ATGs just because he looked good one night against Chris Finnegan is ridiculous.


Where is your evidence monzon wanted no part of conteh?

 

He beat
Lopez
Ahumada
Finnegan
Hutchins
Was robbed against Parlov and gave Saad a hell of a fight.
Mickey Duff &George Francis with a money backer tried to make the fight, Monzon nixed it.

 

None of those 4 men you mentioned above ever won a world title at one point in their careers. Never seen the parlov fight but if conteh is as good as you think he is, he should have left no doubt on the outcome against a fighter of that caliber. Gave sadd a great fight but lost...got knocked down twice late...then in rematch got destroyed in 4

So John Conteh defeated 0 world champions and people are favoring him over the greatest 160 world champion of all time

 

Never been a fan of fighters like conteh whose career is filled with excuses.

I prefer stability in a fighter

That counts in head to head matchups

 

Watch the 1st Saad fight and the Parlov fight and take note of the illegal plastic skin and illegal Monsels solution used in them.Saad would have ko'd Monzon ,imo. Challengers in one era can be superior fighters to champions in another ,most posters who lived through the 70's would agree the 175pounders of that decade made for a very strong era.

 

There were about 15 really good Ltheavies who fought each other in the 70's. A+, A, A-, and a few B+.
You can make your own ranking list. But even those in the lower 15, such as Richie Kates, Lonnie Bennett, & Len "Stinger" Hutchins, gave the Top Dogs some heck of a fight(s).

 

Yeah except Conteh didn’t prove himself in the elite group alongside galindez, spinks, qawi, and Muhammad’s....

His resume is lacking, he lacked a top chin, he had many inconsistent performances, he lacked focus, and his prime didn’t last very long

 

Saad did Kayo conteh so I don’t see how that helps contehs chances vs monzon.

Monzon was a clutch performer, he carried his power late....conteh couldn’t take a big punch...monzon is going to hurt conteh late and finish him off...monzon had the intangibles he had that IT factor conteh never had

Listen..I know conteh is a very popular favorite amongst European fans..he had nice movement, good defense, nice left hook, good jab....but he didn’t achieve enough to be considered a great fighter..Something was missing

 

Nice Mac. Excellently put

 

With all due respect SuzieQ, I love Carlos as a fighter( bad person though). But he was dropped by middleweights, albeit hard punching ones. In their first fight past it John went 14 or 15 (I forget as my memory is in the toilet) with one of the hardest punching lightheavies ever in Matt. 15 pounds is a massive difference and I dont remember Escopeta ever fighting a lightheavy.

 

John Conteh had talent in spades. He could punch , box and had a spiteful streak in him. His prime was short and talent eroded quickly because of his love of booze and women.
Alan Minter commented " That at his best the worst thing u could do to John was hurt him , because he came at u like a tiger. "

 

Didn't Conteh move "down" from Heavyweight early in his career?

 

Yeah he did, he was basically a small heavyweight.

 

This. John went the 15 with Matt first time out and was very close to beating him despite being past it. He outboxed Saad one-handed for long stretches early on but didn't have the legs to do 15 at a pace anymore and Saad had incredible late rounds stamina. Even then he needed the late knockdowns to swing things his way and nick it on points. John was finished in the rematch, bollocks to excuses, a weak chin or whatever other daft heavy-handed statements Suzie has been making. He looked totally out of it. The first fight was his last stand and took everything he had left imo. He'd looked poor previously against Burnett, which is the only thing Suzie has said thus far that's fair, and was lucky to escape with a draw. Like you say he was robbed against Parlov who was actually a very decent standup Euro-type and already looked past his best in that fight. His trouble with booze, drugs, women, a crippled right hand and his management are widely documented and on record from plenty of people who knew him that it had a detrimental effect on his career from quite early on. His hand was never the same after he smashed it ob Willie the Bull Taylor's bell metal head.

His CV doesn't compare to the greatest fighters in 175 history because his shortened career and personal issues stopped him from achieving assured greatness as well as politics preventing him from unifying with Galindez. But like you also say, he beat plenty of good fighters and two absolutely excellent ones in Ahumada and Lopez. Nevermind that they never won titles, that's a feeble stick to beat excellent contenders with when the fighters they faced and nearly beat at various points for the title include Conteh,old Foster (Ahumada was robbed in that fight), Saad, Galindez and Spinks. Both are amongst the best fighters never to win a belt at the higher weights. Nobody beat Yaqui easier than Conteh who absolutely outboxed him with one good hand. Saad went life and death with him and even Spinks really had his hands full with the past prime faded version. Conteh beat Ahumada cleanly too albeit in an excellent fight, and he was relatively inexperienced at the time. Again like you said he also beat the very good Finnegan, Bennett, Hutchins, Schmidtke etc. Other than Burnett and Saad second time Im not sure what all these below-par performances he have are meant to be.