Contemporary Evaluations of Marciano

Ali, Frazier and Foreman all rated him as the #2, there was a special short on him where Kirk Douglas called him the greatest heavyweight champ ever

 

Source for Ali and Frazier? Foreman stated on different occasions that both Ali and Lewis were the GOAT and Frazier was the greatest fighter under 6 feet tall. "And don't buy that smoke that Foreman blows that Lewis is the greatest ever. Foreman is a huckster and a salesman who is just selling you his humble image. I know many who know Foreman personally, and I have been told by them that no way Foreman thinks Lewis is the greatest. In fact Foreman always says that Joe Louis is the greatest heavyweight champ ever. Joe Frazier is the greatest heavyweight champ under 6 feet tall, and Muhammad Ali is the greatest man to ever box." That alone disqualifies him from being number two.on Foreman's list.

Kirk Douglas called him the greatest heavyweight champion of all time? Theee Kirk Douglas????? The well respected boxing expert with first hand knowledge of the game (not the actor, easy mistake). Why didn't you say so? That settles it. Marciano was the GOAT!

 

I'm saying Marciano being the goat was an opinion held by some at the time, that was just the first example that popped into my head

George Foreman has stated numerous times on Twitter that his list goes #1 Louis and #2 Marciano, I can pull up some tweets for you. He's been consistent on it.

There's a very well known quote by Joe Frazier:

"Joe Louis is the greatest heavyweight champion of all time. Rocky Marciano is second only to Louis. Where do I rate Ali? Somewhere below me. I beat him, and if I could beat him, no doubt Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano could have beaten him."

I'm honestly surprised you asked for proof on that.

Ali said on many occasions that Marciano was the only past champion whom could defeat him, that, in a sense, implies that he regards Marciano as the #2 heavyweight champ.

 

Clearly not, if he switches his number 1 from Ali, Louis, Lewis, etc that's anything but consistent.

I actually forgot about that. I was actually looking for that quote after looking at this thread and found it just before your reply.

Not even remotely. Some people think Frazier would be the only man who could beat a prime Ali who is their number 1. Does that mean Frazier is their number 2? No. Speaking of which Ali also said "Frazier is the greatest of all time after me."

Also 4 people, 2 of whom always change their story (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on Frazier) and one who's an actor, who knows jack **** about boxing ,who state Rocky was the 2nd greatest heavyweight is hardly "generally considered".

 

Charley Rose 1968

1. Sam Langford

2. Jack Johnson

3. Jack Dempsey

4. Joe Louis

5. James J. Jeffries

6. Gene Tunney

7. Sam McVey

8. Rocky Marciano

9. James J. Corbett

10. Max Baer



Nat Fleisher 1958

1. Jack Johnson

2. James J. Jeffries

3. Bob Fitzsimmons

4. Jack Dempsey

5. James J. Corbett

6. Joe Louis

7. Sam Langford

8. Gene Tunney

9. Max Schmeling

10. Rocky Marciano


The Ring 1975

1. Joe Louis

2. Jack Dempsey

3. James J. Jeffries

4. Jack Johnson

5. Rocky Marciano

6. Gene Tunney

7. Bob Fitzsimmons

8. James J. Corbett

9. Muhammad Ali

10. Joe Frazier

The Ring 1971

1. Jack Johnson
2. Jim Jeffries,
3. Bob Fitzsimmons,
4. Jack Dempsey,
5. James J. Corbett,
6. Joe Louis,
7. Sam Langford,
8. Gene Tunney,
9. Max Schmeling,
10. Rocky Marciano.


Herb Goldman 1987

1. Muhammad Ali

2. Sonny Liston

3. Larry Holmes

4. Jack Johnson

5. Jack Dempsey

6. Joe Louis

7. Rocky Marciano

8. Harry Wills

9. George Foreman

10. Joe Frazier

11. Mike Tyson

12. Joe Jeannette

13. Jersey Joe Walcott

14. Max Baer

15. Max Schmeling

16. George Godfrey

17. Elmer Ray

18. James J. Jeffries

19. Sam McVey

20. Gerry Cooney

21. Ernest Terrell

22. Cleveland Williams

23. James J. Corbett

24. Floyd Patterson

25. Jimmy Young

Yup Marciano was "generally considered" in the top 2 as the lists above (despite not having someone with the credibility of the legendary Kirk Douglas who as we all know is very highly renowned in the boxing world) clearly show.

 

Surprised Joe Louis was so low in every one of those rankings...

 

So do you agree that the top 20s heavies had better sparring partners than Charles or Marciano?

Should we do a Big Bill Tate Vs Ezzard Charles thread?

 

Agreed. Even odder was the inclusion of Baer.

 

Produce one verified quote in which Ali says Marciano would beat him.

 

I've never seen a list that is in anyway credible that lists Marciano in the top two.So can you show us a couple please?

 

Godfrey was a sparring partner for Dempsey.Kid Norfolk worked as one too, Tunney did not want either as opponents.

 

I'm not picking and choosing there is no part of that interview or the other one I posted last year in which Steward refers to Marciano as skilled or defensively clever.
Marciano said he could not avoid Old Joe Louis' jabs,"I just had to take them".How does he do against the jabs of a prime Louis, Liston , Ali,Holmes,Wlad,Lewis?

 

But it's not like he ever became viewed as some defensive master at any time during his career/reign. That is something I've only seen put forward now on this forum.

 

There were people like Tommy Loughran who argued that his defense was deceptively good.

It was also something that you occasionally heard from his opponents.

Making a swarmer into a great fighter is a bit like polishing a turd.

The difference between success and failure, is down to making subtle improvements to something ugly!

 

Think he does fine. Louis had an all time jab. Punch stats say Marciano would do fine against those slower opponents. Probably avoids most of them. He also wasn’t prime for Louis and hadn’t perfected his style at that point. How he would take those punches from a Lewis or Liston we will never know. ES said during that interview that Marciano could be clever when fighting. Besides the determination stuff. Either way it wasn’t a comment aimed at just ES but all writers. People like to pick and choose here and take whatever writer fits their narrative.