Contemporary Evaluations of Marciano

But deceptively good is something else. There are some who were surprised that Ali punched harder than they thought he did. Doesn't make him into one of the hardest punchers all of a sudden.

Of course the image of Rocky as face first brawler who relied entirely on his stamina, strength and power is overly simplified, as is the image of prime Ali as a speedster that lacked actual boxing skills. But that is something else than them being the greatest technicians the division has seen.

 

I can see Rocky as a problematic opponent for Ali. He had a bit of both Frazier and Norton in his style.

 

What strikes me about this discussion, and as strange about this discussion, is quoting all sorts of third parties such as sportswriters, about what kind of fighter Marciano was.

It is like we are talking about John L Sullivan, Peter Jackson, Jim Corbett, or Jim Jeffries, and have no film, or only a very limited number of filmed rounds, to go on.

Marciano was pretty well-filmed. I have seen eleven of his fights--Layne, Louis, Savold, Matthews, and his seven championship fights, generally complete. I have also seen snippets from his fights with Vingo and Beshore. So complete or close to complete filmed fights come out to 22.4% (11 of 49) and at least some film to 26.5% (13 of 49) of his fights. And these are almost all of his major fights once he became a world class fighter. What is missing? Well, you might bring up the first Lowry fight, with a green Marciano with 50 rounds of pro experience against a well-traveled journeyman in his 122nd fight. There is the first LaStarza fight, which would be interesting to see because of the split decision, but we have Marciano against this opponent in the rematch.

So the bottom line for me is why defer to this or that sportswriter plucked out from among the hundreds and probably thousands of sportswriters working in the country at the time. The folks on this blog are informed fans who I am certain have also seen these films. I am much more interested in what they see on film of this well-filmed fighter. We are not discussing John L Sullivan here.

My opinion on one issue being debated. Marciano had a pretty good defense. If he didn't this stubby little guy with T-Rex arms and giving away weight more often than not, would never have come close to the title. He got hit his share as he was carrying the fight to the other guy, but got hit cleanly relatively rarely, and when he wanted to could largely defuse the opponent's offense. That deep bob and roll put him too low for the opponent to get a good shot at him, and he effectively barricaded himself behind his arms when he wanted to. He did a good job of protecting himself against Walcott and Moore after suffering knockdowns.

So while I sure wouldn't call him a defensive master, he was a mile better defensively than someone like Max Baer, and I think better defensively than old champs like Jeffries and Dempsey. Even Louis seems easier to hit. No one seems able to put together a string of punches against Marciano like Firpo and Sharkey and Tunney did with Dempsey, or to just keep loading up and hitting him like Schmeling did to Louis.

 

This is false. Joe Louis and Ray Robinson were showered with praise for their superb skill. Ray Leonard was a media darling. People went nuts over Dempsey. Writers thought prime Liston and Foreman were invincible and would be champions for a decade. Even today people give Joshua and Fury credit. The media cant get enough of Pacquaio and Lomachenko and are constantly giving them props.

 

Oh hush, no one wants to hear first hand reports. He clearly hated Rocky and couldn't see him for the genius technician he was.

 

Good post.

Rocky made defense work for him. He didn't have a long torso, and used a crouch and arm guard to cover up well if needed.

I don't think he was an athletic defender who could use his reflexes to duck or move his head out of the way, nor did he use his feet to get out of the way but his defense is under rated. He could get real low and up-close, making him tougher to hit clearly and taking the power off the punch, as most boxer need some range to get their power.

I never saw Maricano vs Beshore. That would be a rare film. How much footage is there?

 

A swarmer is never going to be one of the greatest technicians that the division has ever seen, but that does not mean that defense is any less critical to their success.

As Jason Thomas said, if I fighter like this doesn't have some sort of defense, he is never getting near the title!

 

John Garfield actually said a lot of interesting things about Marciano.

He was more helpful to the defense than the prosecution!

 

This is false. The writers during Louis time didn’t consider him the best or Ali for that matter . There was a news clip of Charles slamming Liston as a nobody floating around here not long ago. Plenty of people praised Marciano as some kind of Superman as well. You won’t find that on this thread though.

 

Lmao! Crude but accurate.

 

Because they were scared of getting hit back. You open up and unleash a string of punches on a slugger like Marciano and you might be opening up your eyes in a hospital room. The best way to fight him is to hit and not get hit while taking advantage of his short height and reach, you don't just pile on punches (unless you have serious artillery like Tyson).

As a side note, Schmeling was using countering and timing Louis who had a weakness, not simply teeing off on him with no fear of being hit back.

Firpo was a brainless brawler and fought that way with everyone. He also ended up paying dearly for it and was KO'd early when he tried it with Dempsey so that's a strange example. Tunney was one of the quickest and most accurate technical fighters of all time and Dempsey was past it. Im sure an inactive Rocky would get nailed quite a bit by Tunney.

 

Where in my post did I say the writers called Louis the best of all time? All I said was that they gave him credit and praised his boxing ability, which is true. You claimed that no boxer is praised or appreciated during their era, which is untrue.

Charles slamming Liston was quite the exception to the norm. After winning the title people thought he was invincible and gave Ali no chance. I thought this was common knowledge...???

 

I never stated you did say that. Was simply pointing out that writers aren’t fortunate to have hindsight or I guess you don’t like those writers opinions when they think someone like Jeffries was better then Louis? Because if that’s what we are doing here at least be consistent with your thoughts. What I also mentioned was the lack of honesty displayed here. There are plenty of stories praising Marciano but those don’t count apparently? You act as if this is the only opinion of the man out there.

 

Louis37 and past it marked him up over and under both eyes those I mentioned would cut him to bits.Denial.denial,denial.

 

I know one thing, none of them ever considered Marciano in the top 2,no boxing writers, and certainly neither Frazier or Ali ,despite the crap some have been spieling on here!