Contemporary views on the Louis that faced Marciano

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Seamus, Apr 3, 2021.



  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Since that post went up, you've spent some time posting about other weight classes :lol:

    But checking as far back as Wednesday (as far as i'm willing to go!) it's 100% heavyweight, and mostly Marciano/Liston.

    So yeah, you're a guy that posts almost exclusively about heavies and mostly about Rocky.

    But that's okay, there's absolutely nothing wrong with using the forum like that (between Wednesday and today...). I do agree you don't come off as particularly "well" though. But in truth, some of the obsessive/troll(ish) posters we've had down the years have been the happiest guys on the forum :lol:
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Managers, boxers, and newspaperman of the day.

    You know, boxing people.
     
  3. Boxing GOAT

    Boxing GOAT Active Member Full Member

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    Most of them knew Louis was washed up. I don't recall a lot of press or boxing insiders calling this a 50/50 competitive fight. Outside of a few snake oil salesman trying to sell the fight, I'd say well over 90% of media, fans and boxing insiders accepted this as a washed up Louis needing one more paycheck.
     
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  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Just read the stuff that's been posted in on the last few pages. After you do you won't be able to say that:

    "I don't know one boxing fan who thinks it was a good win for Rocky"

    At the very least.
     
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  5. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    In truth, of the people I have spoken with about Marciano/Louis, over the years, who were alive at the time of the fight, none of them have been particularly harsh on Rocky. Nor have they been overly complimentary, either. Louis was the hero of the story, after all.

    Once Louis had started on a comeback and Rocky had dislodged Layne, as the Heir Apparent, Marciano/Louis became an itch that needed scratching.

    Yes, most saw Louis as having been forced out of a well-deserved retirement, in unideal circumstances but, given where Rocky himself was in his career, there were still doubts about him; doubts that needed to be validated or dispensed with.

    So, I do think there was a view that Louis would still present a challenge for Marciano, albeit balanced in the knowledge that a Marciano win would be over a much-faded Great, who had reached the end of the line.

    My own thoughts are that the bout was promoted in a likeness to the classic 'Youth vs. Experience' contests and I see some describe it as a 'passing of the torch' match-up. But, Louis had passed on that torch, a year prior. So, like one of those types of bout, but one which perhaps needn't and wouldn't have happened, but for the dire financial situation created for Louis. in which the law of nature ran its course.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
  6. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Just a question. What is the evidence that the "majority of ring experts" picked Johnson over Jeffries?

    It might be out there, but you are the first one I have seen make this claim. Were there polls?
     
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  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    You want Pollack, probably.
     
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  8. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This is a good point, but I think an even better question is how this version of Louis would have done against the opposition of earlier claimants to ATG status .

    Are the Peter Jackson or Joe Goddard that Jeffries defeated better than this version of Louis? What about the younger Ruhlin and Tom Sharkey? Or even the equally old but much smaller Fitz?

    What about Johnson's opposition. I would favor old Louis over Burns, Kaufman, Ketchel, old Jeffries, Flynn, and Moran. Were the green Jeannette or the 156 lb. Langford better?

    Which of Dempsey's opponents were better? Old Willard, who was older than Louis and had laid off three years? Brennan? Look carefully at his record. Little Carpentier or Gibbons who would be about 40 lbs. or more lighter. Perhaps the crude Firpo would have gotten to him, but I think that fight would be at least even money going in.

    I don't buy that this was a weak era compared to earlier eras. Boxing was improving. Just compare contenders of the time like Henry or Baker to earlier contenders of the Johnson era or the early thirties types like Lasky, Hamas, and Levinsky.

    I find it a weak argument to maintain that an ATG, who had been champion 12 years and dominated the division like no one before him had, still being able to compete and hold his own with top ten contenders is proof of this being a weak era. I think that is nonsense.

    No doubt Louis had gone way back. But he was still a skilled 210 plus fighter in an era when that was a very big man.
     
  9. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If Adam says this, it is good evidence. Thank you.
     
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well Adam doesn't say "there were more ring experts that picked Johnson than Jeffries."

    That's not how Adam works.

    Adam reprints various opinions on the fight and it is up to you to determine who is expert, thereby forming an impression on who experts were picking.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
  11. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I think he was in as good of shape as can be expected at that stage. But the stellar combinations driven by quick reflexes were gone as were the timing and work rate.
     
  12. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    But you conclude reading his reprints that most experts favored Johnson. Okay. Fair enough.

    I have read several of Adam's books, but not the one on Johnson. No criticism of you was intended. I just wanted to know where you got this information.
     
  13. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Watching the fight for the hundredth time...I'm struck by how much smaller Rocky looks. Imagine Bowe or Lewis or even old Foreman in there.
     
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  14. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    your research is completely inaccurate.

    I have checked my posts over the period since Wednesday and Sonny featured no more than Ingo, Quarry and Joe Louis in my posts. Six posts each. Ali featured in 15. Marciano 16. Lennox 3 and Walcott on four. Bruce woodcock and Alvarez on one post each.

    Nothing unhealthy there..
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, I didn't feel criticised, I just wanted you to understand I wasn't making any claims on Adam's behalf.