Contenders who could have been champions with massive state support?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Aug 23, 2021.


  1. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Which contenders throughout history would have won the championship if they'd gotten a huge infusion of support from their national governments?

    By this, I mean essentially a blank cheque to get the best trainers, nutritionists (and maybe also "nutritionists"...), sparring partners, full time camps year round, and so on. A level of state support you might expect from a wealthy totalitarian government that sees you as a vital component to its own propaganda effort. Very rare in practice; I'm not even sure Schmeling or Carnera got it. We're talking the Manhattan Project of boxing here.

    There are some obvious examples in the Depression, like Walcott. But I'm curious whether anything changes for any fighters who already had decent-but-not-ridiculous support already. The Youngs, Witherspoons, and the like.

    No bribes or assassinations, though. The victories have to be legit.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2021
  2. Pepsi Dioxide

    Pepsi Dioxide Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Laszlo Papp first springs to mind, the state literally took away his chance to fight for a title or contend

    If Cuba was dedicated to pro boxing Savon, Stevenson immediately spring to mind.

    A little hard go say because there are a lot of journeymen who fell into that role to support themselves, basically becoming opponents so probably never saw them at their absolute best.
     
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  3. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Yeah. The Communist Bloc generally isn't a bad source for fighters who might pull it off. (Though Ali, who sparred a couple of Russia's top guys, commented that they were essentially extremely skilled amateurs in terms of their abilities, not comparable to top professionals.) In terms of other totalitarian regimes who didn't have the amateur restriction, Nazi Germany might have produced something if WW2 hadn't happened. They seem to have been like the Soviet Union + a pro scene. And German chemical labs were some of the first to synthesize steroids, so they'd even have the chemical assistance that the Soviets did, but before everybody else.

    As it was, the Nazis fortunately got crushed in WW2, so we never got to see whether they could have produced anybody capable of beating Louis, Charles, Walcott, or Marciano. I don't know, personally. Hein Ten Hoff was one of their best, brought up under the Nazi amateur system and everything, but Walcott apparently toyed with him. Whether Walcott could have toyed with a hypothetical version of Hoff (or others like him) who'd been training in peacetime with full state support through the 1930s/40s and were possibly on PEDs to boot...less sure on that one.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2021
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  4. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

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    Where I am from, Arizona, Zora Folley was a well loved fighter, he had talent, good style, was a genuine family man. But I think with the right management he could have gone on to bigger and better things. Losses to Sonny Liston, Brian London, Doug Jones, Ernie Terrell, and a draw against Karl Mildenberger in 1964, blunted his progress to the top. I remember when he fought Muhammad Ali in March 1967 in his only title shot, the state was very proud of Zora, as was his family.
     
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