Contrary to Popular Belief, Vitali Klitschko Looked Good vs Kevin Johnson

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by paulfv, Dec 12, 2009.


  1. paulfv

    paulfv Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ok, I just watched the full fight via YouTube and here's what I saw:

    * Kevin Johnson didn't want to fight, and was in a defensive shell most of the fight

    * Not sure how one judge gave even a single round to Kevin Johnson

    * Kevin Johnson looked better, physically, in the fight than he looked at the weigh-in (looked fat at the weigh-in)

    * Kevin Johnson's defensive movements with his torso and head threw Vitali off slightly. The toughest thing, I think, for VK was that with KJ's leaning at the waist so much VK was put in a position where if he threw a punch it would hit KJ on the back of the head. So, VK threw fewer punches and power punches than he might otherwise

    * KJ seems to have a decent chin (was never really hurt) and this probably has something to do with him having virtually no neck. He took some shots that would have hurt other HW's

    * KJ has a good, and long, jab when he chooses to use it

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    Now, people are saying VK looked old, slow, etc. He may have looked slightly slower, but I saw pretty much the same guy who fought Arreola but Vitali wasn't fighting Arreola tonight and so it changed his game plan tremendously. Some notes on VK in this fight:

    * He wanted to counterpunch (as is his tendency) but couldn't. He had to lead for all 12 rounds. That's not usually his best style. He was a counter puncher against Arreola and had to move around more because he was more concerned with Arreola's attacks than he was against Johnson. Vitali adapts to the guy in front of him. Tonight, he adapted to a boxing version of The Blob.

    * VK was not motivated to destroy KJ as he was, say, against Sanders or Lewis. He was pacing himself instead

    * VK likely thought the T/KO would come in time, as it usually does, so he didn't go all-out until late, and he didn't even do it much then

    * VK's accuracy is not as good when he's on the attack as when he counters, it seems. He's more focused when he's being pressed by an opponent

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    Taking all of the above into consideration, as well as VK's being 38 years old, I actually thought he looked quite good. Two main reasons I felt this way are:

    * He didn't clinch almost the entire fight. Clinching is a tell-tale sign a fighter is tired and wants a break.

    * VK used shoulder feints and punch fakes throughout the bout. He was aware of what he was trying to do and disciplined the entire fight, even though Johnson didn't want to fight

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    In addition to the two previous points, Vitali also goofed around with Johnson in the final round and never really appeared too tired.

    What happened was that VK fought a guy who wanted to play defense and who had a solid chin. So VK just did his thing and coasted to an easy win.

    Kevin Johnson is a completely different fighter than Chris Arreola, so Vitali fought a different fight than he did against CA. Vitali did what he had to do to win, and he won easily.

    For those who say that, based upon this performance, guys like Chambers or Haye would have a good chance to beat VK, consider this:

    Vitali Klitschko --- 6'7" *** 245 lbs *** 80" reach
    Kevin Johnson --- 6'3" *** 242 lbs *** 82" reach
    David Haye ------ 6'3" *** 217 lbs *** 78" reach
    Alex Povetkin ---- 6'2" *** 225 lbs *** ??" reach
    Eddie Chambers -- 6'1" *** 215 lbs *** 75" reach


    That is, Johnson actually had a longer reach than Vitali and this helped him when he decided he would throw a jab. Compare that advantage to the stats of Haye or Chambers (couldn't find Povetkin's reach).

    Additionally, Johnson is considerably larger than either Haye or Chambers. That definitely matters. And Johnson does appear to have a solid chin, something which is not the case with Haye.

    I will say this after thinking about it more: Povetkin has no chance against Vitali. His style is made to order for VK, much as Sam Peter's was. He would get counter-punched and battered into submission fairly quickly, IMO.

    Chambers just seems too small. I know he beat Dmitrienko, and I like Chambers, but 6'1" and 75" reach just isn't enough to fight someone like Vitali.

    So, there's Haye. Good luck there.

    The saddest thing of them all tonight is that it seemed as though Kevin Johnson had the physical tools to compete with Vitali but he chose not to. If he actually had come to fight, he may have been able to give Vitali a good, tough match.

    Vitali looked good tonight. He just fought someone who didn't want to engage and who seemed to possess a stout beard. Yes, VK wasn't as fast or sharp as he could have been, but he didn't have to be and Johnson did nothing to bring out the best in VK, either.
     
  2. MickeyBlueEyess

    MickeyBlueEyess Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He looked rubbish, end off.
     
  3. paulfv

    paulfv Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If you think that, you probably don't understand much about boxing.
     
  4. MickeyBlueEyess

    MickeyBlueEyess Boxing Addict Full Member

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    What i understand is that he looked poor, Johnson was there for the taking to scared to throw anything and Vitali just didnt have the speed, accuracy, variety or power to get him out of there. Vitali was a great fighter in his prime but those days are gone.
     
  5. Will

    Will Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'm sorry mate you can't just fire back with that. Most people on here are boxing fans or boxing people and the overwhelming opinion is that he looked poor.

    You may disagree but your in a minority as your thread title says.

    He looked very poor! And there for the taking I think.
     
  6. darwoody

    darwoody New Member Full Member

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    Any thoughts on speed Paul?:think
    After all, this is what Haye fans will tell you is what matters should they meet.
     
  7. paulfv

    paulfv Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Here's the point: People are judging VK based upon the Arreola fight and this was a totally different fight against a completely different fighter. So VK didn't and wasn't able to do what he did against Arreola. And he didn't have to do it, either.

    Arreola attacked, Johnson turtle shelled. Vitali looked different because of who he fought and how the opponents fought.

    The reason I said Mickey might not know boxing is that it's a two-person sport. You can't judge VK unless you consider he wasn't fighting CA.
     
  8. eze

    eze Everybody Know Me Full Member

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    From what I saw, it's hard to look superb against someone unwilling to throw.
     
  9. paulfv

    paulfv Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Haye's speed is a factor and will surprise VK, I'm sure. BUT...VK has fought Sanders who has incredibly fast hands and more power than does Haye. VK also fought Hide who had plenty of speed and power as well.

    VK isn't what he used to be but he's still likely plenty good enough to beat Haye.
     
  10. paulfv

    paulfv Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This is the point, as well as Johnson having 82" reach when he chose to jab, and that Johnson seems to have a solid chin. VK hit him some, but he took it.
     
  11. Will

    Will Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Nope don't agree. Vitali could have done a lot more in there as johnson wasn't difficult to find. I just don't think he has it anymore.
     
  12. paulfv

    paulfv Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I totally disagree with this.
     
  13. darwoody

    darwoody New Member Full Member

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    This is how I see the potential match up.
    Both Haye and Vitali are good counter punchers. Haye can also bring it as the aggressor. Vitali, not so much.
    The venue could be crucial in any such future fight between the two, as the "home" fighter might feel that he has to bring it to the other guy.
    Haye has already proved he can go to Germany and box off the back foot to victory. Vitali has made a career out of doing the same.
    If the two fought I see a boring points victory to one or the other. The point being, it's not a fight that fills me with much excitement.
    I'd much rather see Haye in with Wlad, as thats a much better match up style wise.
     
  14. paulfv

    paulfv Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I agree with this.

    I'm sure Vitali wants to fight Haye before he hangs them up. It will probably happen.

    Thanks for your take on a potential VK-DH fight! :good
     
  15. Caliboxing

    Caliboxing Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Vitali looked like crap. He was flailing, off balance, stiff, and even though Johnson was stuck on the ropes most of the fight, Vitali wasn't taking advantage like a great fighter would.