Corbett McCoy, fixed fight, or Corbett's last big win?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by janitor, Apr 14, 2018.


  1. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    That is precisely what the chapter concerning this fight is called in Pollack's book on Jim Jeffries!
     
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  2. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Gus Ruhlin was a solid 200 pounder, who had fought Jeffries to a draw before McCoy beat him, and who would be seen as the outstanding heavyweight challenger a year later.

    I would say that McCoy was a legitimate heavyweight contender for the era!
     
  3. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    He was 170 lbs ,47 lbs lighter than Holyfield so your comparison was, to put it bluntly ,ridiculous.
     
  4. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Very arguably.

    My point was that sometimes a great fighters best win, or one of his best, is against somebody who he held a weight advantage over.
     
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  5. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think that you are looking for a legitimate contender who was around the same weight as McCoy.

    I would suggest that there are few examples before the 70s.
     
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  6. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    No really I'm looking for a relevant comparison between McCoy and Holyfield since you compared them and I really can't see one.
    McCoy was a crafty boxer with a good dig,but do you really see him troubling Holyfield,over 15 rds?
    McCoy was a middle/ light heavy, Fleischer says he was a great one,whether he was or not, he wasnt a real heavyweight.No more than Choynski was.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Choynski also has a KO win over Jack Johnson. Johnson, who had been fighting for a while had 20+ matches under its belt when they happened. That should count as one of Choynski's most significant wins.

    We have to remember during those times there was no light heavyweight division. There was middleweight, then heavyweight.

    Holyfield was a 190-pound man,( I think he was a light heavyweight as an amatuer. ) who suddenly bulked up and had PED issues. I remember when he was coming up, they said his legs were too thin. My point is if McCoy fighting and using the same stuff today, I could picture him in the older 190 pound limit as a cruiser weight too.

    McCoy was a real SOB, in and out of the ring. He has this corkscrew punch that produced cuts, he tricks his opponents by feigning an injury and suddenly nailing them. One time he acted sick, and his opponent took it easy on only to " the real McCoy " Legend has it he once threw tacks into the ring vs. a barefoot opponent.

    A tricky mobile boxer, with long arms for a man of his height and a pound for pound type of punch, McCoy was defiantly a heavyweight contender in the late 1890's to early 1900's.

    If matched vs. Hart or Burns, he could have been a lineal champion.
     
  8. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti The Ad Wolgast of Googling Stuff Full Member

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    It's certainly very significant historically, but I don't know if it's really one of his better wins considering where Johnson was at when it happened. Who had Johnson beat at that point?
     
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  9. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Johnson had been fighting since 1894. The fight happened in 1901. He had over 20+ recorded fights, and who know how may battle Royal's or unrecorded fights. Johnson biggest win to date was likely over Klondike a 200-pound man, with power.

    The point I make from time to time is when Johnson fought men near their prime in Choynski, Griffin or Hart he lost. While he has wins over Langford, McVey and Jeanette, Langford was estimated to be 20 years old and 156 pounds, Mcvey was just a teenager, and Jeanette a raw novice with a losing record, .500 or just above .500

    IMO Choynski, Griffin ( Who was likely a bit past it when they met ) and Hart were better fighters than the more famous names on his resume he beat before becoming champion by defeating Tommy Burns. Burns is likely Johnson best win.

    IMO Johnson's resume is a bit misunderstood.
     
  10. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti The Ad Wolgast of Googling Stuff Full Member

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    I'd put the wins over McVea and Denver Ed Martin higher, though I'd agree Burns is one of his best wins, and I certainly see the case for putting it at the top.

    I don't see how Griffin could be better than Martin who totally outclassed him. I also think McVea KOind Martin clearly shows him as a class above Choynski who was getting KOed by Sharkey, Walcott and Kid Carter either side of the Johnson fight.

    The Hart fight is a weird one. Johnson seemed to just totally give that fight away.
     
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  11. RealDeal

    RealDeal Active Member Full Member

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    I’d like to read more about Corbett. Do you have any recommendations as far as books?
     
  12. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Johnson was not prime when he fought Choynski, good win for Joe though it undoubtedly was. Lots of boxers get beat pre-prime and
    post-- prime.
    Choynski was knocked out 3 times by Peter Maher and twice by Joe Goddard,I don't think either of them would be favourite to beat a prime Johnson.
     
  13. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Active Member Full Member

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    Peter Maher has always puncher chance. He beat a lot of good fighters.
     
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Johnson wasn't green either. Like I said he has been fighting since 1984 ( this fight took place in 1901 ), and it was Choysnki who rode the rials to fight in his home town. It was a short fight, and Johnson was out cold. Chins really don't improve that much. Like you said Choynski wasn't durable, but he was fast and could hit. While I do think Johnson improved a bit and peaked I can not overlook how much trouble he had vs, guys who can punch with some skills that were not green.

    You could say Johnson was born at the perfect time. He cleaned up the top African American talents while they were much younger and more inexperienced, and beat the best white heavyweights when they were much older than he was and clearly past their primes. But in-between when he fought guys in their prime with good ability in Choynski, Griffin, and Hart who were not too green or old he was not so great and to me, that shows a lot.

    We never saw Johnson vs. prime versions of Langford, Jeannette, or Mcvey. He never fought GB Smith either. These matches could have been made from 1909-1914. Demand was there for them and with known promoters. Well, Johnson did have a 4 round exhibition match vs. a green Gunboat Smith in 1909 and was out in round 4, with the match halted by Johnson's manager. Johnson also pulled out of a signed contract to fight Sam Langford in 1909. I have been critical of Wilder in this forum for picking soft touches in title fights, but I think Johnson might have him beat in that department.

    By 1909, we likely agree Johnson was at his best. Yet the young champion had a shaky year.

    O'Brien, past his best and much smaller went six rounds with Johnson, and some primary sources felt O"Brien was the better. Johnson nearly had 40+ Pounds on O'brien.

    GunBoat novice, had him out in a 4 round exhibition match.

    Ketchel a middle weight floored Johnson and had him dazed. While Johnson won it, he says he was hurt, and the press agrees. Again, Ketchel wasn't very skill and was a middle weight and didn't not land much before the final round.

    And finally he pulled out of a signed deal to met Langford in 1909. Based on the three performances I'm talking about, Langford had an excellent chance to be the next lineal champion had they fought.
     
  15. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    I think the thread's about Corbett and McCoy?
     


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