Corbett Tko'd Jeffries In An Ex Match!

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Mar 15, 2019.



  1. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The title is of course "click bait",I employed it because Mendoza does so when describing the fact that Gun Boat Smith floored Jack Johnson in a sparring match whilst Johnson was training to face Ketchel.

    However Corbett did floor Jeffries in sparring, it happened on Feb 27th 1897 at Corbett's training camp whilst he was preparing to fight Fitzsimmons.
    " Corbett dropped and badly dazed Jeffries with a short right. Billy Woods replaced him and despite he was wearing the pneumatic armour*,even Woods was knocked groggy and dropped by body blows."
    Source
    "In the Ring With Bob Fitzsimmons," by Adam Pollack page 350.

    * The "armour" was an early prototype of head protector leather and stuffed with hair.

    I was amazed by Corbett's speed,cleverness,and hitting power.He never missed a chance,and his feints completely dazzled the Los Angeles pugilist[Jeffries].
    " He dropped Jeffries this morning with the shortest of short arm punches,and he doubled Woods up and floored him with the left body blows." Charley White Trainer.
    Sources
    The San Francisco Chronicle & The New York Journal Feb 28th1897.
    An eye witness to the knockdown was WW Naughton Editor of The Police Gazette, and writing in the San Francisco Examiner,March 15th 1897.
    " I saw him send big Van Buskirk down with a half speed right at the Olympic Club a few months ago,and I saw him drop Jeffries with a right jolt not many days since".
    So primary sources verify that Corbett dropped Jeffries in sparring.
    My intention is not to make cheap capital out of it,many fighters are floored in sparring and Jeffries was an up and comer at this stage .
    My object in posting this information is to demonstrate that "sparring is sparring" and it is entirely different to a real fight. For example;
    Toxie Hall floored Marciano in a spar and the session was called off.Was that then a tko win for Hall ? Of course not!
    Greg Page floored Tyson with a right hand.
    Raphael Butler and Travis Walker floored Vitali Klitschko in sparring.

    Such information is interesting ,but hardly earth shattering or meaningful when it comes to predicting how a real fight would turn out.
    As I say, I posted the tid bit just to demonstrate how ridiculous Mendoza's claim of Smith scoring a tko over Johnson in a spar are!
     
  2. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Bronson Full Member

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    I agree with you on sparring, Mcvey.

    A recent example would be Mayweather's sparring with Spadafora and Spence, which is blown way out of proportion.

    Dempsey also had trouble with people in sparring, wheras in a bout it would be different (although Jack didn't exactly take it easy on them, either).
     
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  3. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti The Ad Wolgast of Googling Stuff Full Member

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    I do think Corbett had a better punch than his record suggests.
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Dempsey was notoriously harsh on his sparring partners ,but,as you know ,fighters try out different tactics in sparring,because the consequences of them not being effective isn't going to matter. Greb and Loughran made Jack look silly for a few rounds,in a full scheduled fight I think he would have caught up with both of them and given them a thorough pasting.
     
  5. TBI

    TBI Active Member Full Member

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    I think sparring means more than some do on this forum, but in general, the topic is good- it doesn't mean enough to point to as a reference or indication of how a guy would do against another in a real fight necessarily.

    I'm sure in some instances it's very accurate, and in some it means absolutely nothing. There are degrees. Stages of progression in camp, states of mind/life, cases where one guy had something to prove and the other guy just wanted some rounds, etc.

    Too many variables to be considered to make accurate statements really.
     
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  6. greynotsoold

    greynotsoold Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Sparring is only sparring, unless your guy does well.
     
  7. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales Full Member

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    Can be a good warning sign for gamblers though. The stories about how the much smaller Edwin Valero was beating up Oscar as his sparring partner for the Pacquiao fight turned out to be a good warning that the version of Oscar who showed up for that fight would be a shell of himself.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  8. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I have literally never heard of this occurrence. I've only heard that the knockdown against Walcott was the first time he'd been knocked down in a fight in his life, including street fights as a child.

    Source?
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  9. Russell

    Russell Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Who the hell includes "street fights as a kid" on a resume of any kind?

    ****ing Marciano fans, man. "I wuz nevah wobbled! Not even as uh kid!"
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  10. greynotsoold

    greynotsoold Boxing Addict Full Member

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    That can work the other way as well though. Leading up to the Mayweather v Pac fight we knew a guy that had two southpaws in camp sparring with Floyd.

    He was giving my friend reports about how well his guys were doing, so we'll, he said, that they were asked to leave camp early. My friend lost a lot of money betting on the southpaw in that fight.
     
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  11. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I'm not Mendoza, I always have a source.
    "An embarrassing position," said the world's heavyweight champion,who was at that moment lying flat on his face with his olf friend allie Colombo massaging his mighty thighs and trainer Charlie Goldman slapping embrocation on the massive shoulders like you pour sauce over sausage.
    Rocky Marciano, one of the truly great fighters and one of the most honest athletes I have met,was discussing the plain fact that he had just been dumped on his broad beam.
    The man who did it was 26 years old sparring partner Chicago Negro Toxie Hall."
    Marciano said,with uncompromising honesty;Sure he nailed me with a real good left hook,I never saw the punch.
    It landed here-he tapped the right side of his scrubbish chin.That's only the second time I've ever been knocked off my feet.Well you know when the first time was Pete,in the first round of the fight when I won the title formJersey Joe Walcott in September 1952 . Of course that was different and worse.That time my head didn't clear until I heard the count of four."And then I looked up and saw Walcott in the corner ,and I thought, Gee, this is only the first round and he's still fresh!"
    "Today was different,I was never really dazed, and anyway this was only sparring ,and when you're sparring you try different things out.But a fight,that's something else again.That's when it really matters,and you just go in there and go crazy if necessary.Still it's quite a thing to be dropped by a guy who you've boxed with for over 300 rounds!"
    Wilson explaining the sequence of events that caused the knockdown.
    "What happened was that Marciano started a left hook himself,got hit with a similar punch,went over backwards,stayed down for anythingup to 4 seconds with a look of mingled hurt and surprise and then,when he did get up walked over to the ropes and bent over them for several seconds."


    "More Ringside Seats ",[pages 58&59,] by Peter Wilson ,at Marciano's training camp Grossingers, prior to the Cokkell defence.
     
  12. Pat M

    Pat M Active Member Full Member

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    I've seen sparring sessions where both coaches claimed their guy dominated the other fighter. I've seen fighters get beat up sparring then claim they won. Some coaches think their fighter always wins, others think their guy never does enough. Some fighters spar like it is a fight, others use sparring to test new ideas. We have two brothers at our place who are about the same size, We have to stop their sparring most of the time because it gets too intense. They start off going easy, working like they should and as soon as one gets hit solid, it becomes a war. Watching them spar would probably be a good predictor of what would happen in a fight, but for most people when they spar it's not that intense for both fighters.

    I'd like to have seen Valero and ODLH spar, and I'd like to have seen FMJ spar the southpaws, but I wouldn't want to bet on how FMJ would do against Pacquiao or how ODLH would do against FMJ from how they performed in sparring.
     
  13. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yeesh, i wasnt trying to make some kinda case for marciano, i was just going off of what i heard

    Thanks for the info!
     
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  14. Reason123

    Reason123 Not here for the science fiction. Full Member

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    I wonder if a fighter ever purposely did bad in sparring to cause false confidence in their opponent.
     
  15. young griffo

    young griffo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Kid McCoy was reputed to have done this I believe.
     
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