Corbett vs Foreman. 1893, 45 rounds

As I have said Jeffries went into light training 18 months before the fight he also began watching his weight , you are implying he lost the weight on a crash diet .Jeffries was not sitting on the porch of his farm in retirement he was working it and working daily harvesting the crop , Alfalfa.
My sources are Pollacks bios of Johnson and Jeffries,Unforgiveable Blackness by Ward ,and Papa Jack by Roberts.Tyson Fury recently lost about the same amount of weight in much less time, came back and beat Wilder,though he only got a draw.
I see no reason why a man of 36 can't be as strong as he was at 30 as Jeffries was when he first retired.
What information have you to hand that points us to the contrary?

 

Corbett has just about the worst resume of any lineal heavyweight champion.
He was outmuscled and overpowered by 5 ft 8 in183lbs Sharkey.
What 6 ft 3in 220lbs Foreman would do to him doesn't bear thinking about!

 

****ing hell. Everyone that got in the ring with Foreman had the potential footwork and movement to trouble George if they hand no other option. Bell rings and run like you know your life depended on it. Referee eventually disqualifies you and you live to run and move another day.

 

If Foreman can lift 214 pound Frazier into the air with a single uppercut, the lanky 167 Corbett might end up sailing over the ropes. It would be comical, like watching a shoryuken uppercut in street fighter.

 

Sullivan,Fitzsimmons,Corbett,Sharkey,Langford,Jeannette ,Choynski ,All picked Jeffries to win.Corbett,and Choynski sparred with him.
What they said AFTER the fight is irrelevant to what they said BEFORE IT! I never said or implied you said Corbett crushed Jeffries in a clinch I asked you to provide proof that he held his own in those clinches which is what
you stated.You haven't.

So kindly stop trying to move the gaol posts.
Which boxer would beat Johnson after years of inactivity is totally irrelevant to the subject at hand, which is how well Jeffries did against Johnson?

The answer to that is badly, he had one good round the 4th,read the fight reports.
Johnson said that was the only round in which a punch from Jeffries really registered with him.[it was a body shot].
As early as the start of the 6th rd Corbett told Jeffries brother Jack,"your Brothers beat what shall we do?"
They discussed Jeffries fouling out, throwing in the towel etc.

Jeffries took his beating with stoic courage.but lets not pretend he was ever in the fight ,he wasnt!
Jeffries was less than 3 years older than Johnson ,it wasn't age that beat him it was his own greed because he was making a fortune in vaudeville and reluctant to begin sparring until late.

Sam Langford stated Jeffries was in fine shape," he wouldn't have been able to take all that punishment if he wasn't." Choynski said it wasn't physical condition that beat Jeffries,but a mental collapse. Haven't you read all these quotes and reports?

 

You provided no proof of your assertions that Corbett held Jeffries even in the clinches ,and you wont because such proof does not exist! Read the fight report!
The opinion of the vast majority,the experts, the reporters and the public was before the Reno fight was that and I quote."Jeffries Has Come Back" ,he was the overwhelming favourite to win and by ko. That is not my opinion,its the opinion of the vast majority of experts that watched Jeffries train.


You have consistently dodged addressing this information in favour of asking ,who,in the same condition as Jeffries could have beaten Johnson? That has no logic or bearing on the subject And as I say that is irrelevant to your claims that Jeffries pushed Johnson back early on.Which by the way, is contradicted on film and by ringside observers.

Bail If you want, but do so knowing that you've ducked the essential questions and that I know it too.

 

At least just so *I* understand, how good are you saying comeback Jeffries was compared to his best?

Does that Jeffries still pull off the title fight performances that the young one did?

It's hard in this back-and-forth to keep track of whether you're saying he'd declined to decent challenger level, was as good as ever, was a shell of his former self, that he'd actually always sucked, etc.

 

Who does Pollack, Ward and Roberts cite in their books? What is the original source for Jeffries being 70 pounds overweight?

Even 18 months is too small a time frame to lose 70 pounds and be ready to compete in the ring again, especially in your mid 30s. Muscle mass is naturally in decline after the age of 30, and Jeffries began his training 18 months ahead of the Johnson fight. That means he only started training in February of 1909.

This, IMO, is not a good enough time frame for his body to attain his peak physique that he had in 1904. Tyson Fury's body certainly wasn't in the shape it had been in 2015 when he originally came back, it took years for his body to get used to the dramatic weight loss that occurred. I believe that it was the same case for Jeffries.

 

Honestly, I don't think Fury is a good analogue for athletes in 1909 for either side. The environment is very different.

 

True, but Corbett has been in a similar situation before when he fought a puncher who heavily outweighed him in Jeffries and he almost won. I don't think the Foreman fight goes the same way, but it's fair to say Corbett is better at using footwork and movement to survive than most.

 

I still want to know what Mcvey's source is for 70 pounds, because every single website I see says 110 pounds.

 

George’s ability to cut the ring off is hardy ever mentioned. Watch HIS footwork. Once he corners Corbett. God almighty. It’d be horrible. Maybe not too horrible as James J would not stay upright for too many punches. But the punch/punches he does take. Stretcher, hospital, surgery at the least. At the worst an enquiry about how this tragic fight was allowed to be sanctioned.

 

IMO Jeffries had seriously gone back,his judgement of distance and his timing were not there,his wind was not what it had been.I also doubt he really believed he had the beating of Johnson.His former manager Brady stated Jeffries was always leery of Johnson and wanted no part of him,make of that what you will.
It's very possible imo that, in that condition Corbett would have won their first encounter.
Jeffries had been a great fighter,he certainly wasn't as good as he ever was,but because he declined to have any warm ups fights or indeed spar with any young contenders its very difficult to say with any certainty at what level he was at.

Prime Jeffries v prime Johnson would have been a hell of a fight,but my money would always be on Johnson