Correcting Ignorance: "Hopkins only fought smaller men"

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by DINAMITA, May 8, 2009.


  1. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Among Hagler's best wins are natural ww Hearns, natural lw Duran, natural lmw Mugabi.

    Among Monzon's best wins are natural ww Griffith, small ww Napoles, natural lmw Benvenuti.

    They fight the best comp available. Hopkins did that, same as Monzon and Hagler.


    If you look through the physical measurements/statistics of Trinidad (5'11", 72 1/2" reach, weighed in at 158 1/2lbs) and Hopkins (6'1", 75" reach, weighed in at 157lbs) on the night they fought, there is only slight advantage to Hopkins - no more than a standard size disparity between any two fighters from the same weight class, and probably less than the size advantage enjoyed by guys who use the early weigh-ins to make weights that they are noticeably big at, guys like Pavlik at mw, Paul Williams at ww, Antonio Margarito at ww, De La Hoya at sfw and lw, etc etc. By those stats, Trinidad is actually pretty big for a mw! Definitely not undersized.

    Trinidad had KTFO a noticeably big (and possibly roided) Vargas for the lmw titles and annihilated Joppy, who spent his career between 160 and 168, in his last 2 fights before Hopkins.


    Hopkins was a 6ft 1in guy who spent the vast vast majority of his career at 160lbs. Pavlik was his 4th big fight above 160, he had won 2 and lost 1.

    Pavlik was a 6ft 2 1/2in guy who spent the vast majority of his career of his career at 160lbs. Hopkins was his 2nd big fight above 160, he had won his only 1 against top opposition at the same weight he fought Hopkins at.



    Winky Wright fought the exact same way at 170lbs that he did at 160lbs. Anyone who knows Winky's style knows that weight was not a factor in that fight. Winky badly wanted that fight, he weighed in exactly on 170 he was not light, and he was beaten fair and square.


    Antonio Tarver is 6ft 2in and has never fought lower than 175lbs in his entire career, he didn't even start at smw as a novice, he has been a fully-sized natural lhw from day one. Hopkins's world title career from 1995-2006 was spent at 160lbs. At aged 40 and coming off 2 losses, he jumped not one but two weight divisions and schooled the linear lhw champ who had comfortably UD'd Jones and Johnson in his last two. Tarver had 10 months between his last fight and the Hopkins fight, he weighed in a pound less than the limit, and he did not have to take the fight at that time, Hopkins was not a mandatory (as he had never fought at lhw at world title level), but he chose to take it at that time.


    Add to this that Hopkins also beat in his career: 6ft 2in Segundo Mercado, future lhw champ and long-time lhw fighter Glen Johnson, 5ft 11in Antwun Echols who fought for a world title at 168, 6ft 2in Keith Holmes who fought for a world title at 168, 5ft 11in Howard Eastman who also took Arthur Abraham to points.


    The perception that Hopkins preyed on smaller men is false. He fought the best available, many of whom were the same size and some who were bigger. He was a tall middleweight, that's all.

    :bbb
     
  2. El Cepillo

    El Cepillo Baddest Man on the Planet Full Member

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    Great post, that will be lost on many people. Probably the same people who call Tito a cheat and think Calzaghe is the #1 P4P ATG. So its not all bad.
     
  3. FrochPascal

    FrochPascal Boxing Addict Full Member

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    :lol::lol::lol::lol:

    and what a great comparison of duran, hearns and mugabi compared to hopkins opponents. Shameful.

    Anyhow hagler was like 5,9 and not as naturally big as hopkins.
     
  4. itrymariti

    itrymariti Cañas! Full Member

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    There wasn't really any need to deconstruct something which was just a piece of hating; but, for what it's worth, I agree. In fact, Hopkins fights against "smaller" guys like DLH were overtly tactical; it's not as if he went in brawling or slugging or something. Hopkins' style is very tactical and all about crisp punching and effective defence, so weight doesn't have that much to do with it anyway.
     
  5. FrochPascal

    FrochPascal Boxing Addict Full Member

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    :rofl
    WOOW. These posts are pretty bad.
     
  6. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

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    Most of Hopkins best wins were against smaller guys or guys he had move up in weight to fight him, with Tarver being the notable exception. What Hagler did doesn't make a bit of difference (although Marvin fought smaller guys, too, and people do notice that and compensate his P4P rankings as such) in what Hopkins did.

    Fact is, if you go by name value at the time of the fight, Hopkins most notable wins were Oscar, Tito, Tarver, Pavlik, and Winky. Out of those 5, only 1 was a "career" fighter (as in, that's the weight they built their career and name at) at the weight they fought Hopkins at.
     
  7. jersey inferno

    jersey inferno Active Member Full Member

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    :lol:
     
  8. EL-MATADOR

    EL-MATADOR Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Well isn't that ironic...
     
  9. itrymariti

    itrymariti Cañas! Full Member

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    Would you care to expand on that? Didn't you see the DLH fight? Didn't you see 9 rounds of slow-paced, strategic, outside fighting?
     
  10. BritInvasion

    BritInvasion keepin on keepin on Full Member

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    Hopkins made his name beating smaller guys. Thats not to say they weren't great some of em - they genuinely were. But let's not pretend he wasn't, for instance, a naturally bigger guy than Tito.
    "It is what it is".
     
  11. EL-MATADOR

    EL-MATADOR Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Again, you're missing the point, and the point is that he fought the very best available opponents...Trinidad, DLH, Pavlik, Winky were all established champions and P4P fighters, with both Trinidad and DLH being ATG fighters..Were they Duran or Hearns? Of course not, but that doesn't change the fact that they were the best opponents out there, and great fighters in their own right...
     
  12. unclepaulie

    unclepaulie Run like an antelope! Full Member

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    Can we also get some ignorance busting inre: Hopkins faking lowblows that Calzaghe admitted throwing.
     
  13. FrochPascal

    FrochPascal Boxing Addict Full Member

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    And that was a perfect example of hes size and strength playing a big role.

    Look man i didnt want to sound too mean...but you said someting like weight doesnt have much to do with it....Ofcourse it can...especially in these circumstances

    In that fight de la hoya as you say it was quite strategic.....then de la hoya was stopped by a body shot....for the first time ever in hes career............................
     
  14. El Cepillo

    El Cepillo Baddest Man on the Planet Full Member

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    That made me laugh, the British commentators and fans acting all outraged at Hopkins 'cheating' when the replays blatantly showed him being hit in the nuts. :lol:
     
  15. FrochPascal

    FrochPascal Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Just to follow up on my last point, hopefully it was taken..this is de la hoya after the fight...

    De la Hoya said he was "proud" of his performance, despite being stopped for the first time in his career.

    "My gameplan was to keep moving and watch out for that right hand, and it was working. I put up a good fight but he just caught me.

    "He's the middleweight champion of the world. I tried to do the impossible and I'm proud of my performance."