Corrie Sanders vs. Ray Mercer

That quickie mart employee was coming off a 7 fight win streak including 6 kos.

 

Other than Mercer's dad, Wladimir Klitschko, of course.

 

I have my opinion on Rahman's weight for that fight and you have yours, lets agree to disagree. But Manny Steward agrees with my opinion on it. Rahman was not at his optimal weight.

It's valid, albeit with the caveat that Mercer was not prepared for Ferguson just like how you say Sanders was not prepared for Rahman.

 

I kind of agree that Mercer is overrated, the Holyfield and Lewis fight flattered his actual ability.

You don't go to war with a durable tank of a fighter like Mercer because in a battle of attrition the guy with the better chin usually wins. But of course it's Holyfield were talking about here, he's the one of the few guys who could fight the wrong fight vs Mercer and get away with it. Styles make fights and Holyfield's tendency to trade favoured Mercer but that still wasn't enough.

Lewis struggled with Mercer but this was still a Lewis in transition, he'd only been with Steward for a year and this fight was in a tiny ring that favoured Mercer. This wasn't the Lewis that would go onto to become undisputed champion. I don't think Lewis had peaked just yet.

But having said that Sanders is more overrated than Mercer. Apart from a win over a green Wlad who was also stopped by Purrity and later on Brewster, who did Sanders beat that was any good? He made a name for himself as a dangerous puncher KOing faded cruiserweights like Czyz, Weathers, Cole, De Leon and also Michael Sprott. He never cracked what I would call a world class chin. Did he hit hard, most definitely but I don't think he was on the level of guys like Wlad, Lewis, Tyson or even Bruno and Morrison in terms of power. The Rahman fight showed his true level, good but never really top contender material.

 

Against 6 nobodies and the only fight that went the distance was a close fight against a past it Witherspoon, 5 or 6 years before he fought Klitschko. By the time he fought Klitschko he was past his peak.

 

Yes and I stated earlier that if this turns into a shoot out, then Mercer’s chin is what wins the day. But sanders was also a very good boxer when he wanted to be. He could move around, had fast hands, a south paw stance with a good right jab and both height and reach over Mercer. He could win a decision over 10 or 12. Ray was Certainly outboxed by lesser men...

SIDE NOTE: while Wlad would certainly improve later under the tutelage of Steward, I think it’s overstated to say that he was “ green” against Sanders. He was an Olympic gold medalist with 40 pro fights, a world title and wins over a number of ranked men. He was also a fully matured 27 years of age with a physical advantage over about 99% of the division. Meanwhile sanders was 37 years old and had been somewhat inactive as of late. The Wlad win was hands down far better than any Mercer ever had.

 

I like this match up.


I'm gonna go with the Merciless one. Sanders can outbox him but he won't, he'll come in fat and looking for an impossible knockout. Mercer corners and batters an exhausted Sanders at some point.

 

Given that Sanders had LESS fights than Wladimir at that time, I think we can make a case that he was both green AND old

He stopped Cooper and du Plooy when he was green and comprehensively outboxed Puritty. He utterly trashed Billups who had a reputation as being a hard man at the time after he'd given Lennox Lewis all he could handle over the distance.

The Ferguson fight showed Mercer's true level, a guy who over achieved when people played his game. Ancient Holmes showed how beatable Mercer was to a guy who could box. The same Holmes that had struggled mightily to overcome Art Card. Lest we forget, a green Sanders demolished Card with about 5 knockdowns. And Sanders could box.

 

As has been laboriously pointed out to me in this thread, we are talking prime versions. Prime Sanders was not fat and could move for 12.

 

Given that Rahman managed to beat Sanders and then Lewis back to back I'd say Steward may have been wrong.

 

Ooh he stopped Bert Cooper a guy who was basically a dangerous journeymen. I mean who didn't stop Bert Cooper he'd already been stopped 8 times before facing Sanders. Cooper was just another undersized heavyweight Sanders KO'ed quickly again to look good. I'm seeing a trend here, cherry pick a small heavy KO them quickly and build an inflated reputation as a puncher.

Purrity was just a durable journeymen with a decent punch. Out boxing Ross Purrity again isn't exactly something to be impressed over. Were talking Puritty not Ali or Holmes, Christ not even Larry Donald who also out boxed Puritty.

Billups did well to go the distance with Lewis but that says more about Lewis performance that night than Billups ability who again was just a journeymen who was KO'ed in 1 by Orlin Norris and KO'ed in 2 by Jeremy Williams in his next fight after Sanders. The Lewis performance flattered his actual durability as he's been stopped a bunch of times.

Ferguson did no doubt expose flaws in Mercer namely his lack of dedication and tendency to fight in spurts. Mercer could be terrible one night them inspired another and as I posted before he is overrated based on his performances vs Lewis and Holyfield. But I still say Sanders is more overrated based on a loss to Vitali and a win over Wlad who was massively flawed at the time. I mean if your signature win is a guy who wasn't good enough to beat Puritty at the time then that's not overly impressive.

Fact is Sanders whole reputation is based on one performance over a guy who was very overrated and flawed at the time. Much like Douglas's win over Tyson or Laing's over Duran, they caught lighting once but never did it again. I'd take a far more proven Mercer with all his flaws at his best over any version of Sanders.

 

Ray Mercer didn't

And Sanders had had only 18 fights at the time. If Wladimir Klitschko was green with 40 fights then what does that make Sanders?

Cooper had 20 lbs on Sanders. If Cooper was undersized then Sanders was a stringbean.

A lot of that describes Mercer too.

More excuses. I'm noticing a pattern here.

He exposed Mercer's weakness to being outboxed as well. Lest we forget a young Mercer went life and death with the ghost of Ossie Ocasio.

Sanders was like 37 years old THAT is 'massively flawed' in boxing.

LOL what is Mercer's "signature win"? The remains of Tim Witherspoon? Wait, maybe Morrison, who beat the daylights out of Mercer before gassing and losing? Damiani, who comprehensively outboxed Mercer before getting caught by a big punch? I'm having trouble seeing a case for Mercer apart from a puncher's chance.

I'd rather take the guy who usually looked great in his fights and who has the big win, rather than the guy who built his reputation on being a gallant loser.

 

Considering he was only 18-0 yeah he was green when he fought Cooper and rightly so considering he was facing a journeymen with 10 losses. Though I don't see what Sanders being green vs Cooper relates to Wlad being green vs a more experienced Sanders.

Yeah he had 20lbs on Sanders because he was overweight for that fight, he was 27lbs heavier than for the Holyfield fight. But let me guess it was all muscle lol. Fact is Cooper at under 6ft and at his best around 215lbs was a small heavyweight, pretending otherwise is just ludicrous.

Journeymen don't give the best in the division tough fights. At worst he was a gate keeper.

Not an excuse it's a fact that usually Billups wasn't very durable, pretending he was when he's been KO'ed so many times is laughable. It's easy to pick on isolated fights to fit a narrative it's harder to do so when looking at a fighters entire career. I could claim Sven Ottke was a huge puncher based on the Mundine KO, but obviously the rest of his career suggests otherwise.

Never claimed Mercer was some great boxer, he was basically a durable tank with a good jab. He was slick or elusive or especially skilled, but he was tough and when in shape and up for it capable of giving good fighters a tough night. But he was also very capable of putting on a stinker.

Yeah Sanders was definitely past prime, that just supports my view that Wlad was very overrated and flawed at the time which is losses to Puritty and Brewster also prove. It was a good win for Sanders in a career where he did little else.

I'd say Morrison he like Sanders KO'ed a guy who was overrated at the time and exposed a young WBO champion and taking his belt. I wouldn't rank it that far below Sanders beating Wlad. The difference is Wlad went on to improve dramatically while Morrison didn't.

I'd rather pick a guy who was more proven at a higher level. Sanders looked great beating up vastly over matched old former cruisers and looked great past prime vs a green Wlad.

Only time Sanders really stepped in with an elite heavyweight was Vitali. He did well early but Vitali exposed the same flaws he always had. Sanders often was out of shape, his power early faded later on as he never stopped anyone after rd 6. He hit Vitali with his best shot and it simply wasn't enough and I think against an even more durable Mercer the same thing would happen.

Maybe Sanders at his best could out box Mercer at his best but I doubt it. He never proved he could do that vs someone as good as Mercer. I mean who was the best guy Sanders outpointed? Puritty, Johnny Nelson? Mercer proved he could hang with Lewis and Holyfield while Sanders got beaten up and stopped by Vitali. I go with the guy who's mixed it with the best and could compete over a guy who couldn't.

 

It relates because you're looking for excuses and explanations as to why Mercer sucked against lesser fighters but won't give Sanders credit for what at thetime were decent wins. You've got a double standard here. You literally are inventing it as you go. When Wlad Klitschko fought Sanders HE HAD MORE FIGHTS THAN SANDERS and yet here you are calling him inexperienced by comparison The bias is clear.

So given Cooper's ideal weight Sanders would have had 10lbs on him? 10lbs is very little at heavyweight and yet you are pretending Cooper was some microbe compared to Corrie.

Wait, are we talking about Mercer or Puritty? Because that description fits both of them. Hell, it fits Levi Billups too, as well as Art Card if you take the view that comeback Holmes was any good. Either you are plumb wrong, or maybe your evaluation of what a journeyman is needs calibration.

At the time he was seen as a tough proposition.

Yep, I agree, such as taking the Rahman fight being representative of Sanders' ceiling.

My view too, which is why I think Sanders could outpoint him.

He'd defended a world title five times and beaten many top guys in the division. How is that a poor fighter? Maybe it reflects well on Sanders and what he could do as a fighter. You realise that AJ and Sanders are the only two guys to legitimately claim that they beat Klitschko by KO without him gassing out? We had to wait 15 years for somebody to do the same thing to a MUCH older Wlad.

Me too.

Sanders wasn't always 38 I note the howls of anguish at me mentioning Wlad beat an older Mercer, though. And let's not forget that's the version of Wladimir which you think was close to Morrison.

Oh I see, so now we aren't comparing primes anymore?

I don't.

Mercer was a shitty boxer. And Sanders was generally knocking people out, not outpointing them. So now you're tryignt o set the argument up for Corries power to be a liability? Sheesh.

Sanders proved that Lewis and Holyfield wanted no part of him.

Sanders destroyed the guy that destroyed Mercer. I go with that guy.

Lest we forget

This content is protected

This content is protected

 

Al Cole would be a pretty good pick to upset Mercer.